The post war types

LANOS · **Joined:** Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:56 pm **Posts:** 102

I have decided to begin the new topic on the post war types and I have brought this from the topic "A collection of books" included in "Bugatti library":

I think that there are many things on the Marque that still have to be written. For instance, the postwar models. I have not seen any drawing on the type 78 (the new big sports car for those years) yet. I guess that the successor for the T41 Royale that Ettore Bugatti announced as one of his postwar projects has to be one of the unidentifyed types (T69?, T79? - of course NOT the Argentinian Empereur http://www.bugattipage.com/empereur.htm). But I have not seen any drawing or technical description on this new Royale.

I do not know anything about the T76. Could the Bugatti lorry which appears in this French forum be the T76?: http://www.forum-auto.com/automobiles-m ... 04-735.htm The T451 was under development for several years from the cancellation of T252/253 project (1957?) until the purchase of Bugatti by Hispano Suiza in 1963. I read somewhere (maybe in Automobile Quarterly) that even a lot of Italian wheels had been ordered for this car when the project was definitely left in 1963. Does someone have some drawings of the T451? And we cannot forget other types like the 102 and 125 about which Jaap Horst gave some light in his excellent web page.

J.J.Horst wrote:

At the last Molsheim Festival I head lunch together with one of the engineers who worked on the post war cars. He told me about the T253, that could not be made to work, having a tubular centre section chassis (like the lotusses that had a backbone chassis with a box made of steel plate as main section of the chassis) but in tubes. This chassis was bad, had a poor roadholding and was in fact worse than the T252. In a roadtest, it crashed into a tree, in the hills near Molsheim. Also the 4-cylinder engine could not be made to work, the T253 engines either had no power, or they exploded.

The T451 had a V12, with the intake at the lower side, and the exhaust on the upper side of the V. No apparent advantage in that, probably just to be different from Ferrari's. The chassis was a copy of that of the T253, so luckily it was never made. Some parts for the engine were made, but never a complete engine.
The rumour about the wheels are true; 4 complete wheels were made, which were alloy, with radial spokes on the outside, more or less like the T59's wheels. Apart from the complete wheels, there were about a dozen of alloy castings, but not completed wheels. These wheels are probably in some private collection.

Lazarus, being the post war Bugatti expert, will probably have something to comment on this!

Dear Jaap,

Thanks for your answer, you have provided me with a very revealing piece of information on the T253 and T451, maybe the most complete that I had read until now. The book "Bugatti - Evolution of a style" (Kestler) also tells that some parts of the 451 engine were made, but not a complete engine. I had always been under the impression that this type, having had enough time and money for its development, could have relaunched the Marque. Now, with your information, I realize that the type 451 would have never been really a rival for Ferrari since its chassis was a derivative from another intended for a smaller and lighter engine of only 4 cylinders and 1.500 cc.

Lazarus wrote:

Surprisingly I spoke to the son of the Bugatti engineer today for the first time. I did not know that the T253 had been built but it is not surprising ! It was really only a development of the T252. I have not used the backbone chassis on my T253. I am curious to read that they had so much trouble with the T252 four cylinder motor. Columbo knew his business better than Ettore in my opinion and certainly I dont have trouble with my T252 ! Although I did blow it up a few times whilst getting to know the thing. Hopefully all in the past now. I recently had the pleasure of studying some 3000 Bugatti patterns for the postwar cars. It is difficult to imagine that they were short of money at that time. They made silly changes to columbos design which must have cost loads of money and to little purpose.

Hello Lazarus,

About the shortage of money: I have read that the company was not in such a bad financial position thanks to the money received from the French government through defense contracts for the supply of engines and other material used in the Indochina war and for the overhaulling of the autorails in service; apart from the production of precission mechanical parts (a job for which the company was very well prepared, indeed). But after the end of Indochina war in 1954 and when the autorails began to be phased out of service, the company sadly lost the majority of its bussiness.

I suppose that you are the owner of the T253 replica that can be seen on the wiki. What chassis have you used in your car; is it a copy of the 252 chassis? Is the body design based in some of the designs intended for the T252? I had seen the Michelotti design in the book "Bugatti - Evolution of a style" (Kestler) and also the drawing in "Bugatti - Dokumentation einer automobilmarke" (Hucke); but these designs do not have anything to do with your car. Is its engine an original T253?

Some information published in a French journal in 1960 about the T252 and the Bugatti revival can be seen in this French forum: http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pr ... -19495.htm

Regards,

Lanos

LANOS · **Joined:** Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:56 pm **Posts:** 102

PLEASE, DO NOT ANSWER TO THIS TOPIC - I HAVE CREATED IT BY MISTAKE. Herman has created another topic called "Post war Bugattis (split from the book section)" which is the right topic. I sincerely apologize for all this confussion.

Herman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:44 pm

No problem at all.

Here is the link to the other topic:

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1206

I will close this one.

octagonfox · **Joined:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:05 pm **Posts:** 232

I will lock this topic, please see http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1206.

Herman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:48 pm

I really should improve my typing speed...

The post war types

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