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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Congratulations and encouragement for Michael and Uwe for all this research task.

All these questions and these assumptions bring much confusion. Perhaps that new documents will be found and will bring evidence, to confirm or cancel all that.

Be careful in your conclusions.

Good courage


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm
Posts: 2285
-


Last edited by Uwe on Tue May 17, 2016 12:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Uwe wrote:
and I thought Louis Braillard drove 51137 2.3-litre
Plus 51134 for Falchetto (or the other round, no idea).

Uwe wrote:
first race Klausen 1932
No, Grand Saconnex.

Uwe wrote:
probably the same T51 such as in 1933
The photo does not show 51137 but 4936.


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:05 am 
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Location: France
4936 (T35C) then (T35C/51): Willy Escher (CH), Dr. Josef Karrer (CH), Nellie Braillard (CH) with 695-L, Degailler Markiewics (CH), Jean Augsburger (CH), Hans Matti (CH), Andreas Gantner (CH),

51134: Willy Escher (CH) 1932, Nellie Braillard (CH) with 695-L

4936 modified with T51 engine in 1933.
51134 delivered in 1931.
It is not the same car.

4936 and 51134 with 695-L (CH) and Braillard

Perhaps that Nellie Braillard forever bought the 51134.


Last edited by bugatti69 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
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Location: France
Uwe wrote:
probably the same T51 such as in 1933
Image


Type 35C/51 Grand Prix 1929 (4936) 695-L (CH), #36 II° Grand Prix de la Marne, 2nd July 1933, Louis Braillard DNF


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm
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Michael Müller wrote:
The photo does not show 51137 but 4936

you have the evidence that car in the photo is 4936?
race number 36 Louis Braillard T51 2.3-litre
Attachment:
Marne1933.jpg
Marne1933.jpg [ 91.97 KiB | Viewed 10190 times ]


Last edited by Uwe on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
bugatti69 wrote:
4936 modified with T51 engine in 1933.
No, never.

bugatti69 wrote:
It is not the same car.
Of course not. As generally known Swiss registrations do not belong to a car but to a person or entity.


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 am 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Uwe wrote:
you have the evidence that car in the photo is 4936?
Yes.

Uwe wrote:
race number 36 Louis Braillard T51 2.3-litre
Correct, but the "36" has nothing to do with the Marne GP 1933, just coincidence. Unlikely that they raced 51137 there with sports car equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:41 am 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
So much about identification of cars by registration.... :mrgreen:


Attachments:
Bugatti36.jpg
Bugatti36.jpg [ 54.18 KiB | Viewed 10180 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
Michael Müller wrote:
So much about identification of cars by registration.... :mrgreen:

Add lightness.Who needs suspension anyway ! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Look at his face - I believe at this current moment a suspension was his biggest wish.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm
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4936 currently with crank case 51136? H.G.Conway said crank case 51125
my opinion:
4936 with crank case 51136
51136 with crank case 51125 (so 51136 previously listed as 51125))
Attachment:
4936.jpg
4936.jpg [ 58 KiB | Viewed 10166 times ]


Last edited by Uwe on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:52 pm 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
I do not know what engine currently sits in which car, and frankly spoken I do not care. My interest is the history of the cars in their active period.
4936 was owned by Willy Escher, and driven by him and also his friend and business partner Dr. Josef Karrer. Later also Louis, the brother of Escher's spouse (and later wife) Nelly Braillard, was allowed to race it when Escher himself retired from active motorsport. 4936 was substituted by 51137, and sold to Edgard Markiewicz - still as T35C. There is no relation between both cars except that they had the same first owner.


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
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Location: France
Currently 4936 a engine T51.
Or then they are not the 4936 of origin, they would be two different cars using 695-L (CH)

The 51137 is another car.


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 Post subject: Re: T51A - #51134
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
bugatti69 wrote:
...would be two different cars using 695-L (CH)

At least 3, possibly more!
"695-L" (Zürich) was Willy Escher's personal registration which was also used for different BUCAR cars as he was the owner of that company.


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