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T51A - #51134
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=740		 Page 10 of 11
Author:  bugatti69 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
8265-NV1 (F) with 53001 and 54209 : yes, registration of factory for Ettore Bugatti

53001 and 54209 the same frame ? ? ? :lol:

Bugatti 51121 > (GB)
Earl Howe (UK) not (GB) :lol:
(GB) for the car
Author:  Uwe [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
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Author:  Herman [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
Please.... WW2 is over.
Author:  bugatti69 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
Uwe wrote:
I have written the chassis number, chassis type and chassis number is not always the same.
That you don't know the difference, it's not wonder, that's why so many mistakes in the Bugatti-Register :lol: Oui bien sûr, vous avez certainement raison !

8264-NV1 registered by Bugatti on 7th May 1932 as Type 54 chassis no. 54208
8265-NV1 registered by Bugatti on 7th May 1932 as Type 54 chassis no. 54209
8266-NV1 registered by Bugatti on 7th May 1932 as Type 54 chassis no. 54210

License plates and chassis numbers were for used different Types:
License 8264-NV1 + chassis no. 54208 used for Type 53
License 8264-NV1 + chassis no. 54208 used for Type 54
License 8264-NV1 + chassis no. 54208 used for Type 59
License 8265-NV1 + chassis no. 54209 used for Type 53
License 8265-NV1 + chassis no. 54209 used for Type 54
License 8265-NV1 + chassis no. 54209 used for Type 59
License 8266-NV1 + chassis no. 54210 used for Type 53
License 8266-NV1 + chassis no. 54210 used for Type 53
License 8266-NV1 + chassis no. 54210 used for Type 59


Vous savez bien que les Préfectures en France attribuent un numéro d'immatriculation (License plate) pour une seule voiture. Il est interdit d'utiliser ces numéros d'immatriculation sur des voitures différentes (comme en Suisse).

Ettore Bugatti a pu utiliser pendant quelques années un même numéro d'immatriculation délivré à son nom "Ettore Bugatti" sur des voitures différentes. Si cela a été admis pour les constructeurs d'automobiles pendant quelques années, c'est devenu illégal. Il devait utiliser un numéro avec WW pour utiliser ou livrer les voitures hors usine ou qui n'étaient pas vendues.

Sur bugattiregister, le cas échéant, il est précisé pour information: la date et le numéro de châssis pour lesquels l'immatriculation a été délivrée initialement par la Préfecture et attestée par la "carte grise". Cette immatriculation ne correspondant pas toujours au type ou au numéro de chassis de la voiture.

Un exemple:

8265-NV1 (F) with 53001 and 54209 : license plate used for two different chassis.

But it is the 54209 (T54) which received from the Prefecture the number 8265-NV1, not 53001

> T53 GP 4900cm3 (chassis 53001) with 8265-NV1 (F)
not T53 GP 4900cm3 (chassis no.54209) 8265-NV1 (F)

Je constate que souvent vous prenez le contrepied aux informations mises par les participants à ce forum, non pas pour apporter une contribution, mais pour démontrer que vos interprétations ou affirmations sont incontestables, même si elles sont fausses. Et en plus vous ne cessez de critiquer wiki que vous utilisez malgré vous amplement.

Croyez moi que je ne suis pas le seul à penser cela et je ne trouve pas que vos interventions soient amicales. Vous intervenez pour tout et souvent pour polémiquer sur des détails.

Je trouve cela désagréable.

Désolé, je ne parle pas anglais et vous laisse le soin de traduire.
Author:  Michael Müller [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
Uwe wrote:
License plates and chassis numbers were for used different Types:
License 8264-NV1 + chassis no. 54208 used for Type 53
License 8264-NV1 + chassis no. 54208 used for Type 54
License 8264-NV1 + chassis no. 54208 used for Type 59
License 8265-NV1 + chassis no. 54209 used for Type 53
License 8265-NV1 + chassis no. 54209 used for Type 54
License 8265-NV1 + chassis no. 54209 used for Type 59
License 8266-NV1 + chassis no. 54210 used for Type 53
License 8266-NV1 + chassis no. 54210 used for Type 53
License 8266-NV1 + chassis no. 54210 used for Type 59

It is well known that the Bugatti factory illegally used registrations for different cars. I realized 2 versions:
- registrations of cars sold abroad had been re-used for other cars, because the road tax was paid for one full year and not reversible.
- registrations had been swapped between factory cars, especially in the quoted case of T54/T53.
These registrations had been not required for the races as such, but for moving the cars by road to the events, and for testing prior to the races. We can assume that they changed for that reason the brass plate, but of course not the real punched serial number. So it was good enough for potential police controls and border crossings, but of course such behaviour did not change the identity of the car as such.
Author:  Uwe [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
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Author:  bugatti69 [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
#98 Klausenrennen hillclimb in Switzerland, 6th August 1932, Varzi with 8265-NV1


#99 Klausenrennen hillclimb in Switzerland, 6th August 1932, Chiron with 8264-NV1
Image
Author:  Michael Müller [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
Must be 53003
Author:  bugatti69 [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
Image

on the left 4 fixings (53001).
on the right 6 fixings (53002 and 53003).

The T53 in Mulhouse is probably the 53002
Author:  Uwe [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
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Author:  bugatti69 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
The registered by Bugatti on 7th May 1932 as Type 54 chassis no. 54208 is used for 59123

Chassis Plate Nos. 54210 and 54212 were assigned to two Type 59 Bugatti Grand Prix cars, which also raced at Monaco.

Chassis Plate No. 54211 with 6549-NV2 registered by Bugatti on 24th March 1933 was assigned to this Type 51A

Chassis Plate No. 54212 with 6548-NV2 registered by Bugatti on 24th March 1933 (T54 not built), allotted to type 59, probably the 59122

Chassis Plate No. 54213 with 6547-NV2 registered by Bugatti on 24th March 1933, allotted to a type 59, probably the 59124
Author:  Uwe [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
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Author:  Michael Müller [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
#54208 was a T54 works car, burned out at the AVUS 1933 when driven by Williams, most probably scrapped or dismantled for parts.

#54209 was another T54, works car in 1932, then sold to Stanislas Czaykowski. After the fatal crash at Monza 1933 the car was dismantled for parts, engine used for Benoits's T59/50 at Montlhery 1935.

#54210 was also a T54, works car 1932 and 1933, then abondoned at Molsheim. Sold to the USA after the war.
Author:  Michael Müller [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
And by the way, this thread is about #51134...
Author:  Uwe [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: T51A - #51134
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