Spring Steel

Udolahr · **Posted:** Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:26 pm

should we talk about some chassis numbers ?

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

Udolahr wrote:

I do not know how many chemical analysis you made from original parts ? But for all parts we made for aircraft including leave springs I made one . Because in the end an aircraft inspector has to sign for and likes to see some papers . The only real differend is the carbon .
If I buy a bigger amount like 1000kg and more , it is very much the same price like normal construction steel. So the differend can not be so big .

Udo, what you mention is normal "quality" spring steel, which is at the rather lower end of available spring steels. Indeed this contains no alloying elements and of course one can use that.

In contrast, what Bugwrench referred to was "high-grade" spring steel. Something that a real engineer would always choose: the best(!) material available for an individual application.

BTW, Molsheim also used the "high-grade" type of spring steel. Of course, you can only know that if you have access to the real things.

J.J.Horst · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:22 am

Talking materials:

Did anybody do chemical analysis on the different steels and other metals that Bugatti used?

Nowadays there is a portable chemical analysis device, which evaporates a small amount from the surface of a metal part, and uses that for it's analysis. Only a small spot is visible on the surface after the procedure, which can be easily ground away (don't do this in a critical area!)

Udolahr · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:47 am

a real engineer would always choose: the best(!) material available for an individual application.
In this case , Bugatti was very bad , and not a real engineer !

BTW, Molsheim also used the "high-grade" type of spring steel. Of course, you can only know that if you have access to the real things.
I have enough of this original Molsheim examples in my workshop . And belive me , all this parts are not so magic .
OK , I think this discussione is useless . Or did any of you build any kind of leave springs ?
Horst , for example ,with the Niton XL3t 800 , it is portable , you can get a metal analyse in a second , and you see almost nothing at the part .
If I build a spring for a Bugatti , I have to use the same material like original . If I use better , stronger material , I have to make the spring smaller .But I like to have the same dimensions like original , so it looks like a original , if not it is not Bugatti .

Bugwrench · **Joined:** Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:16 pm **Posts:** 338

Udolahr wrote:

If I build a spring for a Bugatti , I have to use the same material like original . If I use better , stronger material , I have to make the spring smaller .But I like to have the same dimensions like original , so it looks like a original , if not it is not Bugatti .

This statement is ludicrous. "Engineer"?
Bugwrench

Udolahr · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:23 pm

maybe for you , but this discussion is useless . You guys are better with chassis numbers .

Gap05 · **Joined:** Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:58 am **Posts:** 40

Udolahr wrote:

maybe for you , but this discussion is useless . You guys are better with chassis numbers .

I don't understand you, if the material have same Young module where is the probleme if it is stronger ? The reactions are identical ! You say that springs are a fusible ?

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

Udolahr wrote:

a real engineer would always choose: the best(!) material available for an individual application.
In this case , Bugatti was very bad , and not a real engineer !

Udo, I guess you have just made new friends on the forum.

Udolahr wrote:

I have enough of this original Molsheim examples in my workshop . And belive me , all this parts are not so magic .

Really ? Well, I guess we have to believe this or not.
If this is the case, why do you bother asking us?
You already have all the information you need at hand !

Udolahr wrote:

OK , I think this discussione is useless . Or did any of you build any kind of leave springs ?

No, of course not, you´re the only one and we worship you for that !

But seriously ... just in case you might have a different point of view on that.
Here on this forum are people who work on the real cars, some of them for over 50 years. Their wealth of knowledge and experience could not only answer any of your questions within a split second, they could explain that at the nanoscale (even in historical context).
Although they all know eachother personally and they exchange themselves with eachother, they don´t seem to do that with you.
Neither do they feel to brag about their apparent (!) expertise all day long.
Why is that so ?
Think about it for a minute ...

Bugwrench wrote:

Udolahr wrote:

If I build a spring for a Bugatti , I have to use the same material like original . If I use better , stronger material , I have to make the spring smaller .But I like to have the same dimensions like original , so it looks like a original , if not it is not Bugatti .

This statement is ludicrous. "Engineer"?
Bugwrench

Goodness gracious ... indeed it is !

Last and least:
If you post pictures of websites, you should post all available informations and not those that help your argument. BTW, there are even more springs steels as on the website of HMC Meyer in Dusseldorf :

Udolahr · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:48 pm

whow ! what a response ! This Forum did not have any action like this for days .

Herman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:43 pm

There are about 100.000 types of steel, some more exotic than others. None of them is ordinary.

Lets go back to the main question:

Who knows of a supplier that has good quality spring steel in 8 and 10 mm in stock, and does not charge the world for it.

Sharing suppliers cannot be a bad thing.

Bugwrench · **Joined:** Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:16 pm **Posts:** 338

Herman wrote:

There are about 100.000 types of steel, some more exotic than others. None of them is ordinary.

Lets go back to the main question:

Who knows of a supplier that has good quality spring steel in 8 and 10 mm in stock, and does not charge the world for it.

Sharing suppliers cannot be a bad thing.

8 and 10mm thick? Bugatti used 4,5,6 and max 7mm at least for the cars with a possible exception for the T41.
Bugwrench

Herman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:46 pm

Udolahr wrote:

Thank you guys for the answers . But I do not realy look for ready made leave springs . I look for the material in 5 to 6 meter long rods . The guy who made the springs for the type 5 made a mistake . The springs are made from 50mmx6,4mm .The springs are getting a bow up , much to small . The original are made from 50x10 and 50x8 . So I like to make the springs and bring the car to the right level . Spring steel is very cheap carbon steel , nothing spezial, but nobody needs it .

He wanted 8 and 10 for the type 5... So I guess that is what we are looking for, are we?

Udolahr · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:49 pm

today I did look at a T13 . Front springs are made from 35mm x 6mm and 35mm x 10mm

Bugwrench · **Joined:** Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:16 pm **Posts:** 338

Udolahr wrote:

today I did look at a T13 . Front springs are made from 35mm x 6mm and 35mm x 10mm

A competent engineer who is aware of the size and weight of a Brescia will conclude that something is seriously wrong with 10mm front spring leafs.
Front springs leafs for the Brescia were 1x5.0mm plus 5x4.5mm for the two seater chassis and 1x6.0mm plus 5x5.0mm for the 3-4 seater chassis.
So I recommend to either check your eyes, your calipers or choose a real Molsheim produced and properly maintained/restored Brescia to verify the front spring leaf thickness.
Bugwrench

Udolahr · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:06 pm

Do not wory about may eyes or calipers , I only use the latest Mitutoyo . And the best engineer has sometimes no chance if ..... I remember Lazarus did say one time , Bugatti made many silly things .Top leave 35x10

Spring Steel

Who is online