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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Location: France
T37 A GP (), Czaykowski
#40 IV Grand Prix du Comminges - 1500cc 18 August 1929 - La Baule, 1st
I Circuit d'Esterel Plage 2 March 1930 - St. Raphael, 4th
#6 II Grand Prix de Lyon 15 June 1930, 4th
#20 VI Grand Prix de la Marne 29 June 1930, DNA
#30 V Grand Prix du Comminges - 1500cc 17 August 1930, 2th

T55 (), Czaykowski
#16 24 h du Mans 1932 Comte Stanislaus Czaykowski/ Ernest Friederich

T51A (51126?)3153-NV2(F), Czaykowski
#23 24 h du Mans 1933 Comte Stanislaus Czaykowski/Jean Gaupillat, Bugatti 1.5L compresseur


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 Post subject: Re: CZAIKOWSKI
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:29 pm 
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Michael Müller wrote:
GCL-Wales wrote:
The latter was again with Czaykowski when he won the 1932 Grand Prix of Casablanca. (Photo with Friderich and the Comtesse Czaikowski* B.42/1/16). He subsequently purchased a 2 litre type 51 (later owned by Esson-Scott in the UK).

Czaykowski did win the 1931 Casablanca GP, in 1932 he was only 3rd. 1931 it must have been the T51 #51126 which he bought from Friderich in April 1931. Also for 1932 I believe he used #51126.
The "2 litre type 51" it seems was #4957 renumbered into #51152 which he used for some races in 1933 with separate 2 litre class.


4957 was converted by the factory on 14/02/33 to 51A (NOT 51C!) and renamed 51152.
Bugwrench


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:34 pm 
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bugatti69 wrote:
T51C GP (# 4957/#51152) 2litres, Czaikowski

#22 VIII Premio Reale di Roma 24 April 1932, 5th
I Circuit de Vitesse de Nice 31 July 1932
#60 VIII Grand Prix du Comminges 14 August 1932
#56 V Grand Prix de Dieppe 15 July 1933, 3th
#12 IX Grand Prix de la Baule 13 August 1933, 5th



51152 was NOT a 51C but 51A. The conversion from 4957 was done 14/02/33 so the 1932 results above must have been a different car.
Bugwrench


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Bugwrench wrote:
51152 was NOT a 51C but 51A. The conversion from 4957 was done 14/02/33

Yes, you are correct, anything else makes no sense. I have no idea where this "2 litre" originally comes from, but I have taken it iver also backed by these results:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp3312.htm#54
http://www.formula2.net/V1933-08.htm

I know Leif and Hans since years, and their data normally are very reliable because they are based on numerous "helping hands" all around the globe. But Hans now told me that some races - inc. La Baule - are only based on Sheldon's "Black Books". Also Stefan's F2 / voiturette data are mainly based on Sheldon, so the same mistake there also.
The main argument of course is Veyron, who had a T51A, which for sure was not converted for a single secondary race to 2 litres. By the way, does anybody know which car Veyron in 1933 drove? I believe it must have been #51143.

For Czaykowski with the T51A now everything fits together. Can we agree to this scenario:
T51 #51126, bought new in April 1931, which he used until spring 1933 (plus Albi in August). He then switched to the big T54 #54209, which he crashed fatally at Monza later that year. He also owned a T35B (#4957) since June 1930, which in February 1933 had been converted at Molsheim to T51A and renumbered #51152. I have only Dieppe and La Baule plus Le Mans as entries.

You corrected me earlier on this, my apologies that I didn't took the time to countercheck already then.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:49 pm 
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Michael Müller wrote:
The photos with Richardson show clearly the single tank filler and the conversion from central magneto to leftsided one, which would confirm the conversion from SOHC car. However, dash is not original.


I don't agree with you Michael M.

There is not trace of magneto conversion from center to left.

From the cockpit picture, we can see the magneto with the T51 set up, but the original front aluminum plate of the cowl has been removed. The dash is not original and the hole on the right side is just the previous tach hole (moved to the left on the picture). From that picture, we can't learn much on a magneto conversion.

The front picture with the bonnet opened gives more information. The engine aluminum plate of the cowl is still original. If the cowl was originaly for a T35 mag drived engine, we should be able to see the big center hole, that's not the case. So this cowl is definitly a T51 model.

Hope you agree.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:24 pm 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
bugfan wrote:
The dash is not original and the hole on the right side is just the previous tach hole (moved to the left on the picture).

I was not looking at the hole where the tachometer was before, but to the switchboard. For cars with lights this was normally on the left side of the dash. I got the impression that the center magneto hole has been filled with a non-original switchboard. However, as the dash is not original the discussion may be useless.

bugfan wrote:
The front picture with the bonnet opened gives more information. The engine aluminum plate of the cowl is still original. If the cowl was originaly for a T35 mag drived engine, we should be able to see the big center hole, that's not the case.

Not the complete hole, but at least the upper section of it. But what makes you sure that the firewall is original?

I do not know any original T51 with single petrol filler only, even the last batch of T35C and B had the double version. So I'm quite sure that this car started life not as T51.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Michael Müller wrote:
I do not know any original T51 with single petrol filler only, even the last batch of T35C and B had the double version. So I'm quite sure that this car started life not as T51.


Yes, you are right, but there is nothing in those 1947 pictures to prove it. that was my point.
51138 was originally a T35C 4964 (engine 189), it was modified by the factory from single cam to double cam. As the cowl is completely different, it is obvious that it was replaced at that time by a new T51 cowl.
4964 was the last T35, it had for sure a double petrol filler tank in its first years, but it seems that you don't know that in the late 30's the car was rebodied and the original gas tank was replaced.
During the war the front of the car was damaged by a fire bomb. In 1947, Derrington rebuilt it using probably a lot of parts from another T35, the radiator, bonnet (not surpercharged and very early), gas tank and tail.
So, on the 1947 pictures, you can only see the tail and single filler tank from another car, a modified and not original dash, and a cowl with no scare of a magneto switch.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:05 pm 
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Location: Bergen NH (NL)
bugfan wrote:
4964 was the last T35, it had for sure a double petrol filler tank in its first years, but it seems that you don't know that in the late 30's the car was rebodied and the original gas tank was replaced.

Stupid I am - I wrote myself that the last batch of T35 had already the double fillers.... :oops:


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