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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Is that so difficult to guess?
He put the frame under an Argentine replica.... 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Or did he only use the papers...?? :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
guess again , it is much better .


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
Johan Buchner wrote:
I am very much looking forward to the unveiling of Jaap's Bugatti plane, a functioning recreation of a one-off, non functioning aircraft is surely something to be celebrated. An utterly splendid way of appreciating the design without risking damage to an irreplaceable original. I of course am way too much of a coward to ever risk my life clambering aboard a balsa wood aircraft, but Jaap is made of sterner stuff and his courage will provide all of us with a wonderful experience.

Thanks for your compliments Johan, though I have to correct you;

The replica airplane is entirely Scotty Wilson's, not "Jaap's plane" I'm afraid. I just helped him to speed up his learning curve a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
To Mr. Scotty Wilson

Dear Sir

It is a great honour for me to recognise you as the rightful owner and creator of this inspired homage to Ettore Bugatti's creative genius. Your craft shall take to the skies and the gods will be pleased.

With Much Awe and Admiration
Johan Buchner
The Pretentious South African


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
Johan Buchner wrote:
To Mr. Scotty Wilson

Dear Sir

It is a great honour for me to recognise you as the rightful owner and creator of this inspired homage to Ettore Bugatti's creative genius. Your craft shall take to the skies and the gods will be pleased.

With Much Awe and Admiration
Johan Buchner
The Pretentious South African

Thank god,back to normal Johan.Fortunately it will take to the skies with modern engines.With Bugatti T50 engines it would be less certain,still if it drops out of the skies it is at least made of balsa so shouldn't do too much damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
his original chassis was made in Argentina .


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:28 pm
Posts: 7
I am astonished that some people in the Bugatti community can write such complete and utter rubbish. After all is said and done, a Bugatti car is the result of industrial design and manufacturing processes. It is not the result of a spiritual or an immaculate conception that took place in Molsheim. The design was created through drawings and somebody constructed what was shown on those drawings - a process that could have taken place anywhere. I agree that cars built in Molsheim were subjected to a process that was specific to the age and to the materials and facilities available. This can be very hard to replicate today but, as in architecture, it is the designer who is the creator and the contractor is incidental.

There are many people with no hope of ever owning a Molsheim-built car but can get an enormous amount of pleasure and knowledge trying to build their own. Many other people get similar pleasure in seeing and hearing the result whether or not the cars were built in a specific place. Those of you who wish to bugger up this pleasure by lobbying the bureaucrats and lawyers are positively evil. Car registration is primarily a method of giving a car an identity so that it can be traced, it should matter little whether it is an authenticated replica or otherwise. Safety is hardly an issue as we know that it is highly unlikely that such cars will be used on the roads to any great extent.

I would suggest that public interest in vintage cars or engineering generally, is a fine and time-honoured way of encouraging young people to follow a career in science or engineering, much needed in some of the EU countries. I was so enthused by the sight in 1946 of seeing a couple of men pushing a Brescia into life after a war on blocks. I subsequently have lived a lifetime in design and making.

I would suggest that you dilettante would-be historians keep away from a website that I thought was dedicated to Bugatti building and leave it to those who are genuinely interested in design, engineering and aesthetics and wish to build and experiment in their own workshops the icons of history - to the enjoyment of all. Ok, Let us hope that they can do this with integrity.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:16 pm
Posts: 338
david russell wrote:
I am astonished that some people in the Bugatti community can write such complete and utter rubbish. After all is said and done, a Bugatti car is the result of industrial design and manufacturing processes. It is not the result of a spiritual or an immaculate conception that took place in Molsheim. The design was created through drawings and somebody constructed what was shown on those drawings - a process that could have taken place anywhere. I agree that cars built in Molsheim were subjected to a process that was specific to the age and to the materials and facilities available. This can be very hard to replicate today but, as in architecture, it is the designer who is the creator and the contractor is incidental.

There are many people with no hope of ever owning a Molsheim-built car but can get an enormous amount of pleasure and knowledge trying to build their own. Many other people get similar pleasure in seeing and hearing the result whether or not the cars were built in a specific place. Those of you who wish to bugger up this pleasure by lobbying the bureaucrats and lawyers are positively evil. Car registration is primarily a method of giving a car an identity so that it can be traced, it should matter little whether it is an authenticated replica or otherwise. Safety is hardly an issue as we know that it is highly unlikely that such cars will be used on the roads to any great extent.

I would suggest that public interest in vintage cars or engineering generally, is a fine and time-honoured way of encouraging young people to follow a career in science or engineering, much needed in some of the EU countries. I was so enthused by the sight in 1946 of seeing a couple of men pushing a Brescia into life after a war on blocks. I subsequently have lived a lifetime in design and making.

I would suggest that you dilettante would-be historians keep away from a website that I thought was dedicated to Bugatti building and leave it to those who are genuinely interested in design, engineering and aesthetics and wish to build and experiment in their own workshops the icons of history - to the enjoyment of all. Ok, Let us hope that they can do this with integrity.


I understand your wife is very proud of her fake Rolex you gave her as you both are so very interested in in the design, engineering and aesthetics of this product!
Bugwrench


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:38 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 2620
Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
Fact is that replicas (in various degrees of quality) are being made.

Another fact is that to get these cars road registered, data of originals (either lost or even still existing) is being used. Chassis numbers, frame numbers, carte gris, replica or original chassis number plates, etc.

To add to this, it is way too late to stop this development.

So the only way to keep things in a straight line is to provide information. Information about all cars carrying a Bugatti badge. Information about originals, information about replicas, information about spare parts anf their quality, information about getting a replica road registered, etc etc etc.

Perhaps to add to this make the EU aware, and provide a loophole in the law for replicas, but keep them earmarked in the databases. (this counts for all car makes, actually)

The information part is where the WIKI comes into play. Although the setup is not 100% suitable now, I am open to suggestions. Of course I could make it into a full time job to keep track of things, but I would need to convince the Bugatti community into paying me a full-time income. That is not going to happen, I guess. So we would need to come up with another solution. I am open to suggestions.

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Vive la Marque !!


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
david russell wrote:
I am astonished that some people in the Bugatti community can write such complete and utter rubbish. After all is said and done, a Bugatti car is the result of industrial design and manufacturing processes. It is not the result of a spiritual or an immaculate conception that took place in Molsheim. The design was created through drawings and somebody constructed what was shown on those drawings - a process that could have taken place anywhere. I agree that cars built in Molsheim were subjected to a process that was specific to the age and to the materials and facilities available. This can be very hard to replicate today but, as in architecture, it is the designer who is the creator and the contractor is incidental.

There are many people with no hope of ever owning a Molsheim-built car but can get an enormous amount of pleasure and knowledge trying to build their own. Many other people get similar pleasure in seeing and hearing the result whether or not the cars were built in a specific place. Those of you who wish to bugger up this pleasure by lobbying the bureaucrats and lawyers are positively evil. Car registration is primarily a method of giving a car an identity so that it can be traced, it should matter little whether it is an authenticated replica or otherwise. Safety is hardly an issue as we know that it is highly unlikely that such cars will be used on the roads to any great extent.

I would suggest that public interest in vintage cars or engineering generally, is a fine and time-honoured way of encouraging young people to follow a career in science or engineering, much needed in some of the EU countries. I was so enthused by the sight in 1946 of seeing a couple of men pushing a Brescia into life after a war on blocks. I subsequently have lived a lifetime in design and making.

I would suggest that you dilettante would-be historians keep away from a website that I thought was dedicated to Bugatti building and leave it to those who are genuinely interested in design, engineering and aesthetics and wish to build and experiment in their own workshops the icons of history - to the enjoyment of all. Ok, Let us hope that they can do this with integrity.

Bravo David,I can only marvel at your totally sensible appraisal.Would that all so called Bugatti enthusiasts shared your common sense.Safety is however an issue,as true Bugattists always like to drive their cars.However as Bugattis are so inherently safe [even by todays standards] and as no restorer wants to see his car damaged,driving the cars today presents no difficulty as long as the builder builds to Bugattis own high standards.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
Herman wrote:
Fact is that replicas (in various degrees of quality) are being made.

Another fact is that to get these cars road registered, data of originals (either lost or even still existing) is being used. Chassis numbers, frame numbers, carte gris, replica or original chassis number plates, etc.

To add to this, it is way too late to stop this development.

So the only way to keep things in a straight line is to provide information. Information about all cars carrying a Bugatti badge. Information about originals, information about replicas, information about spare parts anf their quality, information about getting a replica road registered, etc etc etc.

Perhaps to add to this make the EU aware, and provide a loophole in the law for replicas, but keep them earmarked in the databases. (this counts for all car makes, actually)

The information part is where the WIKI comes into play. Although the setup is not 100% suitable now, I am open to suggestions. Of course I could make it into a full time job to keep track of things, but I would need to convince the Bugatti community into paying me a full-time income. That is not going to happen, I guess. So we would need to come up with another solution. I am open to suggestions.

You could change your name to David Sewell?


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:28 pm
Posts: 7
I will treat Bugwrench's reply to my post with the contempt that it deserves but I should just add that as my wife's profession is the same as mine, she would treat the gift of a fake Rolex with the same contempt that I have for Bugwrench's humourless comment.

Herman. Unfortunately most of the history of fakery and the stealing of identities is the direct result of, as you intimate, the intransigence of the registration authorities. To get the EU or the national authorities to make such a loophole will largely solve the problem of faking and the wanton destruction of the integrity of original cars. I will give you every support in starting such a campaign now.

I must admit to having very little interest as to whether the crankshaft of car no 1234 is now sitting in car no 5678, or whether car no 2468 was originally supplied to the Hon. Bill Blogs on the 1st April 1927 by the agency in Timbuctu and subsequently won a hill climb in Amsterdam a year later - I am much more interested in whether the shut lines of my crankcase patterns conforms with those of a Molsheim original. However I do admit that such information has an important place in discouraging fraud.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 2620
Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
Lazarus wrote:
Herman wrote:
bla bla.

You could change your name to David Sewell?


Perhaps, although I do fancy my name.

But it is a good idea to charge everyone for access to the WIKI.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti ???
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Thank you Gentlemen, thank you!

Your dedication and heartfelt passions means I am no longer the most ill-mannered Contributor on Bugattibuilder.com.

With Deep and Everlasting Gratitude.
Johan Buchner
Gentleman


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