Let's face the facts. A T51A with #51134 was delivered to Willy Escher of Switzerland in July 1932. And a T51A monoplace with exactly this chassis number today is part of the Schlumpf collection. The only information in between - proven by photos - is the use of this car by Fritz Georg Martin at the 1946 Ruhestein hillclimb.

The rest are either rumours or unconfirmed reports and assumptions. But 2 points puzzle me - the "ex-T39C" of #51134, and the fact that I could not find any race participation of a Swiss T51A, not by Escher, but also not by another Swiss driver.

Let's go backwards a little bit. The T36 1100 cc monoplace #4751 was raced only once at Strasbourg in 1926, after that it was sold to Josef Karrer of Zürich who was the Swiss Bugatti importer. There are reports - for which up to now I was unable to find confirmation - that this car was rebuilt to 8C-1500, either before it went to Switzerland, or after that. Karrer and Escher had been close friends, for racing they even had a mutual team. Could it be this 8C-1500 ("T39C") monoplace that was sent back to the factory for conversion to DOHC T51A?

So the Burggaller car, one with a fabulous racing history (your explanation of why it was most probably only one car makes perfect sense), may indeed have been written off. And chances are it never carried chassis number 51134, or at least definitive proof that it was indeed 51134 has not (yet?) been found.

51134 was delivered to Escher in Jun 1932, today, in single seater configuration, it resides at Mulhouse. Michael your thoughts on the T36 origins of this car does shed some light. Now if I understand correctly all the T36's raced for a very brief period only, and I further believe that most (all?) were fitted with 1500 cc engines. It makes sense that Ettore, who hardly ever threw anything away, would have these unsuccessful racers rebuilt. I wonder if the T39C that was rebuilt as 51134 could have been 4898; engine 5?

It is the only T39C for which Conway has almost no factual history, and from what I understand from your very precise reasoning, the exact origins of the car that begat 51134 is equally shrouded in mystery. I believe a lot of factory documentation was lost during the war, and Conway makes reference to some surviving records disappearing, before being found again, but I know very little about this. I also believe the late Mr. Uwe Hucke had an awesome archive, is it accessible? Are you aware of any other documentation which did survive, but cannot be accessed?

Also, I am not quite clear on the manner in which the factory would have recorded the rebuilding of cars. Would there have been separate files for T36 Strasbourg, T39C 4898/5 and T51A 51134/2, or would this journey have been recorded on a single document?

In conclusion Michael, reading your wonderful research, I am leaning towards the Burggaller car and 51134 being 2 entirely separate cars. But either way, thank you so much for sharing your hard work with the rest of us, whenever I read your posts, I learn, I really learn. For that I am so very grateful to you.

Johan.

The second single-seater type 36 was sold to the UK racing car agent Malcolm Campbell who subsequently had the factory update it to 2.3 litres.

For pictures and the story of Campbell the Bugatti importer refer to "Life with the Speed King" by Leo Villa (0906116 066).

I reviewed this book in "Bugantics" about twenty years ago but I'm too lazy now to look it up. The cover is horrible but the rest scores ten out of ten.

I doubt the latter, 5 years in between makes no sense. #4898 for sure shared the destiny of all works cars - it simply had been sold. As T35C, T35B - who knows. Possibly the 8C-1500 engine was converted with another crank to 2 or 2.3 litres, or sold separately as 1.5. May be even to Karrer/Escher for converting the T36 from 1.1 to 1.5. Everything is possible or not, all speculation and theories.

I withdraw the theory that #51134 may have been based on the Karrer T36. The chassis - especially the front axle - was completely different.

Still could be possible, by adding springs and shocks, and of course a new front axle.

The (original) T36 had no suspension, and that was considered a failure. So the axles could have been thrown away, but the chassis reused?

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

I can help with some information. The T36 and the T35 share not more than possibly the steering box. Not even the engine (at least lower part) is exchangeable as the T36 has a parallel frame. Gearbox and rear axle are different also.
Bugwrench

And I forgot to mention that the steering column enters the dashboard just below the magneto showing that a single seater can be fitted with a single cam engine with dash mounted magneto. The angle of the steering column appears to be steeper than on the T35 though.
Bugwrench

Interesting!

But that does not exclude that the block can be exchanged by using the old crank case, or?

That is correct and that is why I limited the non-exchangebility to the lower part of the engine or the lower crankcase. Remember though that the lower crankcase carries the identification of the engine......
Bugwrench

Information which can be helpful:

- Any information about the origin of Burggaller's T51A engine, which I believe has been acquired end of 1931 / early 1932. Possibly this was even a T51 engine which then was cranked down to 1.5 litre. Which T51 disappeared in this period due to accident / scrapping?

- Photo of Burggaller's car from the 1934 Eifelrennen on the Nürburgring (monoplace or standard 2-seater?)

- Info about the car in which Steinweg raced to death at Budapest (Guggenberg hillclimb, 2 November 1935, 1.5 or 2.0 litre class?)

- Photo of the ex-Burggaller car between 1935 and 1939 when owned by Steinweg, Troeltsch, Joa, and Martin

- Any info (owners, race participations, photos) of the Swiss T51A #51134 between July 1932 and 1939

Hi Michael

The 2 most intriguing ongoing threads are on 51134 & 51138, intriguing because of the mystery surrounding them. I was thinking of doing a post on 51133 ("baby Atalantic") but then I read the WIKI entry for this car and realised that its history is complete. And while I'm at it, allow me to thank the individual who wrote the WIKI entry on this car, a superb effort, thank you. It is the incomplete histories which makes for the best entertainment and learning opportunities.

So, instead of us following my original suggestion, and discuss the most original T51's, let us instead pick those cars which intrigues you the most. Perhaps you would like to expand these to include the T35 as well, but I think it important that you pick the cars. Reading through all that has been written about 51134, it struck me that the collective wisdom of all the contributors could not provide a single fact not already supplied by you.

So give us amateurs a chance, surely there must be at least one T35 or T51 to which, your formidable ability as researcher notwithstanding, we can contribute at least something? Follow the same format as 51134, just open a new thread, give the Type and chassis number, stand back and let the fun start. No need to stick to just one either, and you know what else might be fun? I'm sure that somewhere in WIKI "mistakes" lurk. Perhaps a T35A "accidentally" being given a T51 identity? Come on Michael, you know you want to.

Johan

51134, engine #2-1500, delivered to Escher a Swiss Bugatti Driver on May 21, 1932, later raced by Braillard. For Sale by Ed E. Jurist, of the famous Vintage Car Store in New York, circa 1960's. Sold to Schlumpf. Was converted to single seater at some time. As Ed Jurist quote in his letter to Hugh Conway, ''The car was a unique specimen, and carried a number of VERY strange German indentification plates affixed to the side rails and engine mount legs''. There was a possibity that this car is in fact 37350 with the engine from 51134. Quote Unquote by Hugh Conway.

Further H.C notes, T51 engine cross referance, 2-1500, 51134 (39C trans)

Oh, I show these T51's with Schlumpf : 51134, 42, 51, 59 in my notes from the 1970's.

Finally some new information...!
However, they complicate things even more....

Louis Braillard raced a private T35B in 1932 and early 1933, owned by his elder sister Countess Nelly Braillard. No idea which one. If the racing statistics are correct he used it last at Tunis on 29 March 1933, and appeared first at Nimes on 4 June 1933 with a T51, most probably also financed by Nelly. The race was combined Formula Libre and 1.5 litre voiturettes, with 80 laps for the big cars, but only 40 for the voiturettes. Braillard was 6th in the FL class covering 77 laps, with the winner of the voiturette race was Albert Chambost with a Salmson. So without any doubt his car was a full 2.3 litre T51, and no 1.5 litre T51A.
The same for the Grand Prix d'Albi on 27 August 1933, which was won by Braillard, with the supporting voiturette race was won by Pierre Veyron in his T51A.

In 1934 Nelly Braillard bought 2 Maserati 8CM, in January #3009 for Louis and Robert Brunet, and in May #3015 for Benoit Falchetto. The T51 was kept with the Ecurie Braillard and raced by Braillard and Brunet when the other drove the Maserati. End of the 1934 season all 3 cars had been sold, no idea where the T51 went to.

I highly doubt that the Escher T51A went to Braillard, because it would have been much cheaper to convert his own T35B to T51 that an additional T51A, and easier to buy a 2nd hand T51 if he had no intentions to race in the voiturette class.

"delivered to Escher a Swiss Bugatti Driver on May 21, 1932"

How sure is this date? Because Conway in his "Grand Prix Bugatti" writes "July 1932". But anyhow, Burggaller appeared as early as 5 May 1932 in his "T51A".

Only theoretical option remaining is that Escher changed his mind, and 51134 was delivered as full T51, with the engine sold by Bugatti to Burggaller (not by Escher, due to the time gap). But if we apply this solution then the Burggaller car was NOT #51134.

"For Sale by Ed E. Jurist, of the famous Vintage Car Store in New York, circa 1960's. Sold to Schlumpf. Was converted to single seater at some time."

That would mean that the Martin car in the post war years found its way to the USA. Would make sense, as a lot of cars had been bought very cheap by US servicemen during their stay in Germany, and then shipped home on US Army expenses.

"'The car was a unique specimen, and carried a number of VERY strange German indentification plates affixed to the side rails and engine mount legs''. There was a possibity that this car is in fact 37350 with the engine from 51134."

If I understand this correct, then it is NOT sure that the Mulhouse car is #51134, only that the engine is FROM #51134. I think that "37350" is an assumption based on the reported Burggaller history of the car. But Burggaller sold his T37A #37350 2 years before he converted the ex-Bremme T35B to 1.5 litre DOHC. Burggaller's T35B was releatively unknown to the international Bugatti community, most historians only knew his Monaco start with the T37A.

So here are the next 2 vital questions:

- Can it be proven that the Escher T51(A?) was in fact sold to the Braillards?

- What chassis number has the Mulhouse monoplace claimed to be #51134?