Hi Andrew

After extensive research (I typed Guy de Roig & Jacques Buson into the Register's search engine and copied and paste the results) the following :

Jaques Buson is associated with the following Bugattis : 40485 ; 40925 ; 44679 ; 57245 & 57478 as well as one other T37 apart from your car :

37268
From International Bugatti Register
Engine n°: 157, now 265 ex 37317
Year: 1927
Licence plate: 3828-RB7 (F), 1151-NH4 (F), 5032-YU6 (F), 282 CH 83 (F), F-04131 (D), F-EN 55 (D)
Owner: undisclosed (D) since 2003
Former owners: Janssens (F) 1928, Martin Auterre (F), Pierre Kneppert (F) 1945 , Corvino (F) 1949, Jacques Buson (F) 1957, Jean de Dobbeleer (B) 1959, Walter Glöckner (D)
Type 37 A Grand Prix
Meetings:
- #31 Grand Prix de Méditerrannée, 1947 Pierre Kneppert 3th
- #27 Coupe R. Benoit, 1947, Pierre Kneppert 14th
- Course du Mont Ventoux, 1947, Pierre Kneppert 4th
- Course du Mont Ventoux, 1948, Pierre Kneppert 6th
References:
- "The Bugatti Register The Neherlands Belgium" 2008-2009 p. 56
Retrieved from "http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=37268"

As well as being associated with your car, Guy de Roig (Mr. le Baron Guy de Roig gets only one hit on the search engine - 37265. Hope it's the same guy) also owned 37345 :

37345

From International Bugatti Register
Engine n°: 243
Year: 1928
Licence plate:
Owner:
Former owners: G. de Roig (F), J. Mc Lean (USA), F. Willits (USA), W. Martin (USA)
Type 37 Grand Prix > 2-seat Roadster
Meetings:
References:
- W2, W3, NA1, NA2, NA3
Retrieved from "http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=37345"

So what does this all mean? I really wish I knew.

Best of luck
Johan Buchner

Castle of Baron Guy de Roig :

Castle of Jossigny is an example of the architecture of "houses of pleasure" high in the eighteenth century. There was a manor in Jossigny since the fourteenth century. In the years 1745, Claude François Le Conte des Graviers demolished the old manor house and began building the castle on the present site of the old building, and maintaining the foundations and vaults of origin. The architect might be Jacques Hardouin-Mansart for Sagonne, grand son of Jules Hardouin-Mansart, architect of Louis XIV. The daughter of the last Baron of Graviers married in 1884 Baron Charles de Roig, is the son of it, Guy, who inherited the castle. He gave it to the state in 1949, and partly occupied until his death in 1975. It is classified a historical monument on 23 December 1942. The castle consists of a main building with a large lounge, a music room, a dining room, a beautiful eighteenth-century kitchen, several bedrooms, a library and a chapel are buried where the latest owners Jossigny . North side, are the common (dovecote, the domestic quarters, stables), south side, an orangery. In front of the castle opens "sunset of the aisle, lined with tall trees, offering a beautiful view in the axis of the facade. The castle is currently closed for the duration of its restoration

Localisation : http://maps.google.fr/maps?f=q&source=s ... 6&t=h&z=18

http://jossigny.monuments-nationaux.fr

_________________
Make your dream devour your life, so that life doesn't devour your dream.
[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I was able to learn some more information, and maybe you can add some insights on it. This comes from a reliable source. Here it is:

"37265 was registered by the Molsheim factory as “4127-J4” (as were 37264 as “4129-J4” and 37266 as “4128-J4”), all of which were unblown T37s and perhaps intended as factory works cars.

This is pretty exciting NEW information. Does this help anyone with regard to learning more about it's history or prior owners?

With regard to Mr. le Baron Guy de Roig, we'll have to do some more research, it looks like, to see if he is associated with my car or not. Either he may have owned both cars (but why), or because 37345 and my 37265 were both converted to Roadsters, they may have been confused at some point in time, and only one of them is/should be associated with Baron Guy de Roig????????

Even though the American Bugatti Register of 2003 states that my car came to the US through De Dobbeleer, there are apparently no records of 37265 with De Dobbeleer going to the US. In the Jacques Buson T37 info, that car (37268) went from De Dobbeleer to Buson. Maybe there are no records of De Dobbeleer sending 37265 to the US, because he sold it to Buson in France, and then Buson shipped the car to Zipper in the US. Could this be possible?

I uploaded the first of a bunch of PDFs. Andrew will upload more. Can someone convert them to image files? I would not want the server to trip over the massive amount of traffic due to downloading of the large PDF files.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Following is the article "The Spirit of Molsheim" by A.C. Whincop, which includes pictures and the license plate of 37265 (9631 MD8) on Page 4. It is the base story for the 1950 Autocar magazine story that was on the Forum earlier. It also talks of the blower and alloy wheels that were already on the car and that the rebuild of 37265 was finished in 1949:






Article and pictures on 37265, which includes full license plate - 4558 DT 75


1954 Fashion Magazine in Paris

These picture might be easier to read than the previously loaded adobe acrobat files:








1962 Conway Bugatti Register and Data Book on 37265:


1979 American Bugatti Register by Andy Rheault on 37265:

Advertised in "Bugantics" around this time was Barry Eaglesfield's type 37 (due to health problems).

Whatever the health problems were they must have abated. Barry is, I think the only advertiser from this era still alive.

I am told a good original 37 might be worth about £300,000 now so as against the £300 then. 100-fold increase in about sixty years.

Other prices : An immaculate 46S : £1,500 (£500,000 now ?). 35B : £550 ono. (£750,000 now ?) 40 : £195 (£150,000 now ?), 51 : £800 (£1,750,00 now) 57SC Corsica £3,000 (£4,000,000 now ?) and so on.

The values of quality historic vehicles are moving ahead stronglhy. A Riley MPH (not in concours condition)
fetched £195,000 at a local auction last week!

This is the LATEST information we are really trying to track down:

"37265 was registered by the Molsheim factory as “4127-J4” (as were 37264 as “4129-J4” and 37266 as “4128-J4”), all of which were unblown T37s and perhaps intended as factory works cars. "

This is pretty exciting NEW information. Does anyone have any further information on what these numbers meant at the factory, and what they might have used these cars for?

Does anyone have more information on "4127-J4"?

Thanks,

Andrew

Most works racing cars in the mid-twenties were given registrations ending in J4 (e.g. 4130 J4 - Factory type 35C registered 02/04/1927 - CN 4881).

Cars being delivered to agents were given a temportary registration, e.g. 1652 WW 5. I haven't checked this out , but I think these were only used once (unlike the UK and German "trade plate" system).

Below are pictures of the castle of Baron Guy de Roig, which he gave to France in 1949:



Still don't know if he was one of the first owners of 37265, but maybe this might stir some memories!

This is wonderful information, that "Most works racing cars in the 1920s were given registrations ending in J4"!

Are there any resources, such as Bugatti Magnum, Grand Prix Bugatti, etc. where it discusses this information? Would there be any way to find out more about "4127-J4" and if 37265 was indeed a factory works car?

Hi Andrew

I checked Magnum and Grand Prix Bugatti last night and 37265 was delivered to the Paris showroom. The first owner is not identified. I'll make double sure when I get home this afternoon, but I think you already have all the other info in the Conway works, including the delivery date.

Thanks for sharing your journey of discovery with the rest of us ; this is turning out to be one of the most enjoyable threads for a long time. Just a quick thought : This thread does make a mockery of the belief that freely shared information will lead to cars being replicated and histories being rewritten. I humbly submit that because 37265's story is being discussed in the public domain will make it well-nigh impossible for any replica to claim her identity.

We are all the richer for your willingness to share 37265's fascinating history ; thank you Andrew.

Kind Regards
Johan

My pleasure to share. I am trying to learn at the same time, so it has been very informational and helpful to me. Thank you to everyone that has contributed!

We have a picture of Mr. le Baron Guy de Roig, and a possible link that he was an owner of the car. I would still like to try and confirm this (somehow, someway). Even though we found this out from a Bugatti archivist (David McKinney of UK), I am not sure we can truly say this is part of the history yet, as we also found that 37345 in the 2003 American Bugatti Register lists that Guy de Roig was it's first owner.

Any additional information we can find would be extremely helpful to ruling this in, or ruling this out.

VLM,

Andrew

Andrew,

Being owner of the 37265, you can make a request written with the prefecture of the department of North in Lille to know the name and the date of registration recorded under the number 9631-MD8 (F). Perhaps they have in their files the name of the owner preceding and also the preceding number registration.

You can also ask Bruno Vendiesse in Lille: http://www.prewarcar.com/privates/bruno-vendiesse/

Christian

Christian,

Would you be able to get me the address of the Prefecture in the Nord, in Lille, France, and also the address of the Department of the Seine for the 4558 DT 75 license also?

thank you, as this is a terrifc step for me to take.

Best,

Andrew