That is more or less the response I had expected from you.
No fake Rolex for you and your wife but a fake Bugatti with a Bugatti badge on the radiator is OK for you! My values in life are different.
In most cases people understand exactly what I mean when I make this comparison but apparently some people refuse to think straight when it concerns replica Bugattis.

Do not bother, as a Bugatti owner for 54 years I have seen it all happen.

I have no problems with a properly built replica that has been made with the necessary love and care by an amateur/professional sticking to the exact drawings and thus producing a car based on parts that are 100% interchangeable with and look like the original Molsheim parts, provided the owner is honest about the history of the car and preferably if he has the guts to NOT put a Bugatti badge on the radiator.
I have a serious problem though with the flood of mass produced look-a-like products (these cars are NOT replicas!), that currently dominate the grids at Pau and Angouleme and other events. And particularly when the official programs of the events show 1928 as year of production for these cars although produced in 2008. The public has a right to know what the cars are that they are looking at. If you go to a Museum you also expect that what is shown there corresponds with what is mentioned in the catalogue.
Sorry David, no humour this time either but I missed the humour in your comments as well.
Bugwrench (long time Bugatti owner who has seen it all happen)

I am sorry to inform that I know of at least a couple of occurences where in the museum showroom a replica (or better: a look-alike, or a cast-off) is shown, and the original is safely put away in the deposit area. I learnt this from the man who made the fakes.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

I am quite happy with MY fake Rolex.It cost me £2 in Bankok and worked fine for five years.

Re: Bugwrench

My remarks in my last letter were not intended to be humerous, just ever-so-slightly sarcastic.

I do agree with you however on what a replica BUgatti should be but I must point out that
Ettire's intellectual copyright refers to his designs only although they are now time-expired. Should a replica faithfully replicate his design, it surely has every right to carry his emblem? Indeed, I think that it has a 'right' to carry his emblem, after all, it is the result of his work. (although VW might object, but for other reasons).

Some years ago, it was proposed to build a building by Mies Van der Rohe in London even though he had been dead for 20 years. There were mixed reactions - "architectural necrophilia" some cried but there was no dissent on whether it would be a 'Mies Van der Rohe building'.

Your analogy of a fake Rolex is ridiculous. As fake Rolexes have cheap Chinese-made electrical movements and with a poor copy of the exterior casing it would clearly be a 'fake' and not a replica. Replica means 'an exact copy or model of something' (Oxford/English Dictionary) and as you have said, a good replica would be acceptable to you although without a badge.

nothing wrong with building a replica . I think the real problem is mass production of replicas like in argentina . And get papers made to be original . And sell later a argentina chassis with this original papers as an original chassis .
Not all fake Rolexes have cheap Chinese-made electrical movements . Some are like the original inside .

Indeed I think the whole point lies in the fact that to get a replica of whatever quality on the road legally, you need to twist the truth in such a way, that these cars later can be "mistaken" for Molsheim Bugattis.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

i think the Rolex comparison is extremely interesting or would be if you have any basic knowledge of Rolex,who are one of the largest mas producers of swiss watches. Some replica Rolexs have better movements than the originals? ETA supply movements to most of the Swiss watch industry as well as the high quality fakers. In fact Rolex themselves used Zenith movements for there Daytona and these are now the more valuable to collectors.
Looking at some of the replica Bugattis created in the last 30 years the same could be said. I would not put any of the plain bearing cars in this category?but that is simply customer choice.
The heart of a Bugatti is conciderd to be it's chassis but bugatti never made chassis's they were contracted out to Holzer hence the raven mark on the rear crossmember. A late Gino Hoskins chassis is of better quality than a Holtzer chassis.same for his springs.
The issue of faking comes about because of 2 factors:
I think buyer ignorance and greed make people want to beleve the story that comes
With a suspect car.
i have been looking at every built up car that has come to open market in the last 3years and have bid on 2 at auction up to where I think they are worth. There is nothing wrong with a built up car in principle some are superb.
The simple fact is built up cars are never going to carry the value of totally original cars but the DNA is there especially in the European cars. Whilst I would not want a replica rolex I am happy with a 3 of 5 GP car.
The second issue is road registration of built up cars post 2006. until this time the UK was a simple place to register a built up car the BOC did a very good job of listing what was original on any cars they supported for registration. The process stopped because of this diligence new Argentinian cars were registered and this upset great and the good (who fathers and uncles had built up there own bitzas in the 60's and 70's) however the DVLA can't see any difference between replicas and bitzas. This has lead to an industry of French document fakery but if you regard all cars as suspect do your home work it's very hard to be sold a fake ( Unless you want to believe the lie)
I may not own an totally original car but I'm very happy to call my car a Bugatti 3.5 of 5 is close enough for me.

The ironic thing about the fake Rolex with the Chinese electonic movement is that in doing what a watch is designed to do ie; tell the time as accurately as possible, it will beat the genuine Rolex hands down. Mechanical watches are works of genius but from my experience they "aint that accurate. If you feel the need to wear a fake Rolex, you are doing so because you want to give out the impression that you have a lot more disposable income than you actually have and really, that makes you look even cheaper than the fake watch.
With a replica Bugatti it is different. Lets face it, there are infinatley more Bugattistes in the world than there are Bugattis and that has turned them into commodities.
The only chance most of us stand of owning one is to build one up from what we can. Real bits or replica bits. The fact is, you won't get the holy grail - a genuine frame and to my mind that is the heart and soul.
You can count the genuine Grand Prix cars on the fingers of one hand, and everyone in the know, knows those cars. If a Grand Prix car is selling for under a million these days, it is because it's provenence isn't 100 per cent bona fide.
I was told that Argentine cars use the crown wheel and pinion from a Rover 216 and that dodgy distributor cap sticking out of the dash is just a dead giveaway. Building one up from real and replica parts on the other hand, is creating a car that is an impressive piece of work in itself, I think.

Quite so.

Dear Mr. Russell

You wrote :

"I would suggest that you dilettante would-be historians keep away from a website that I thought was dedicated to Bugatti building and leave it to those who are genuinely interested in design, engineering and aesthetics and wish to build and experiment in their own workshops the icons of history - to the enjoyment of all."

You have not been a contributor for long enough to dictate who gets to play in this particular sandbox, but as one of Bugattibuilder.com's veteran contributors I shall now instruct you in the way of us - you wrote :

"It is not the result of a spiritual or an immaculate conception that took place in Molsheim."

As a dilettante would be historian myself I have the ear of God and He shared with me the immaculate creation of Bugatti, it happened like this : In the Beginning He called Ettore to His Side and Ettore went to the Mountain Top and he Saw the Promised Molsheim. For Seven Days and Seven Nights God spoke to Ettore and on the Seventh Day Ettore came down the Mountain bearing Two Stone Tablets containing the Ten Great Types ; they were, in order of importance :

1. Type 41
2. Type 50
3. Type 50T
4. Type 46S
5. Type 46
6. Type 57S
7. Type 54
8. Type 45
9. Type 47
10.Type 38

And the factory workers looked upon the stone tablets with disquiet and the factory foreman, an alcoholic, threw the stone tablets on the grounds and they shattered into a thousand pieces. "I ain't building this shite, Mate." he hollered, "Come Angry Men of France, let us strike!" Which they did, leaving Ettore alone in his studio trying in vain to match God's design, but alas, Ettore is not God, the best he could do was the Type 35.

You wrote :

"it is the designer who is the creator and the contractor is incidental."

In your opinion. In the opinion of those of us who actually work for a living it is the craftsman who is the artist, it is his hands who shape and mould metal into greatness, the designer is merely the elitist tosser making scribbles on a piece of paper.

You wrote :

"I will treat Bugwrench's reply to my post with the contempt that it deserves but I should just add that as my wife's profession is the same as mine, she would treat the gift of a fake Rolex with the same contempt that I have for Bugwrench's humourless comment."

I agree, as an avowed homosexual I recoil in horror at the mere thought of disrespecting any man's heifer, but you disrespected our Great Passion, you had it coming.

You wrote :

"Should a replica faithfully replicate his design, it surely has every right to carry his emblem? Indeed, I think that it has a 'right' to carry his emblem, after all, it is the result of his work. (although VW might object, but for other reasons)."

In your opinion. A replica is a car, the word fake refers to the owner.

So Sayeth I, and I Remain Ever Thus
Johan Buchner

PS. Welcome to Bugattibuilder.com

I have been a frequent visitor to the bugattibuilder website for quite some years now but resisted registering because of a certain 'dark' presence from South Africa. When, at last, I thought that the coast was clear I registered but then, damn-it, this awful 'thing' reared its ugly head again.

As I wished to learn more of this dark shadow hovering over our lives and as he professed a close friendship with God, I consulted my own religious Guru, the Rev. Richard Dawkins. On mentioning the name of one Johan Buchner, he reddened in the face and spluttered "oh no, not that wanker from South Africa. I thought that he had been excommunicated from the bugattibuilders website years ago. What is he up to now?" I explained the lastest post. "Well" he said, "I know that God's ratings have declined in recent years but I never could have imagined that he would now be scraping the barrel for his entertainment. Ask this fellow Buchner where is his proof that he had had this conversation with God, where is his proof that God had said what he had said he had said and, while you are at it, ask him where is his proof that there is a God for him to have had this conversation with in the first place".

I then described Buchner's attack on designers in general noting that he had avoided referring to Ettore as a 'designer' presumably because Ettore always considered himself as a 'mecanicien'. The Rev D told me that "that this man is a hypocrite or worse as he says that "the factory workers tried in vain to match God's Design" and then goes on to describe designers as those "elitist tosser(s) making scribbles on a piece of paper. So, In Buchner's opinion, God is an elitist tosser? This has got to be blasphemy or Lese Majesty or something. "But who or what is he really?" I persisted. The Rev D said that he had always thought that Buchner was a Bore (is that the way to spell it?) but the Bores always got those dark fellows to do their work for them but B claims that he works with his own hands, so he can't be 'one of those'. As SA was once part of the British Empire he might be an Englishman, but then B decries those elitists who work with their heads on pieces of paper but, come to think of it, the English don't do much with either their heads or their hands these days - after Thatcher and Blair - they just bugger-up banking. Furthermore he describes himself as a 'dilettante would-be historian' and then, almost in the same breath, that he 'works for a living'. Well .........! He must be some poor sod of indeterminate ancestry who deludes himself that he knows all about the Holy Grail but fears that he can't tell the difference between a fake from an original. The result of an inferiority complex or some other deeply seated cause of misfiring. I should just ignore him".

Very good advice, I think.

It seems to be very hot in Thailand and South Africa .

Could also be the food.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

To whom it may concern……

When reading this or some other topics I often have/had the feeling that sometimes too much personal animosity comes into play when there are two or even more opinions involved. Why couldn’t one keep to the essential points when discussing a special subject. We don’t always agree but there is no need to become disrespectful.
There should be no room for personal remarks and accusation concerning a person.
I do believe that creating this Forum was/is a good way of exchanging facts, knowledge and answering questions, but please in due form.

And I ignore David Russell from now on as I guess several Bugattibuilder oldtimers.
Bugwrench