Some new information that relates to the history of 37265.

Joe Ricketts took 37265 to Bunny Phillips to restore 37265 to it's Grand Prix body. Ricketts then had the ex-37265 sports car body put on his Type 35A (4771). (The wire wheels and lack of the unique radiator wind screen show this is 4771) Following is a picture of 4771 with the ex-37265 body on it in 1963. Ricketts sold 4771 to Grant White, who later removed this body and it passed through Lawrence Deutsch in 1990 to Erik Koux, who built a replica T37A with ex-37265 sports car body for his son, Erik Koux in Switzerland.

Below is a picture of 4771 in Bunny Phillips shop with ex-37265 body in background:

Andrew

9631-MD8 (F) between 1928 and 1950:

Préfecture du Nord
12 rue Jean Sans Peur
59800 LILLE
FRANCE

4558 DT 75 (F) registered in 1955 in department of the Seine
Préfecture de police
9 boulevard du Palais
75195 PARIS CEDEX 04
FRANCE

or

Préfecture de police
Place Louis Lépine
75004 PARIS
FRANCE

----------
Bruno Vendiesse is a dealer. Reachable by telephone only

Christian

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Dear Andrew

Quite an active Forum you have there. At present we are producing Vol III of the Bugatti Register The Netherlands- Belgium. We have to be very cautious to preserve the trust we have built up within Bugatti circles. Therefore I cannot share everything on the internet. Although a stolen Bugatti can virtually not be sold, as they are too well known, there still is temptation and as recently was shown, too detailed information may lead to temptation by less than honoust people.

37265 is still mentioned in NLB II on page 222 which lists the cars for Vol III. In total there will be over 350 cars for Vol III (Vol I had 285, Vol II had 217 cars). However I cannot find 37265 in the De Dobbeleers administration. One would think that a car with such a distinctive body at the time would certainly be photographed or described by him!

Vol II is sold to owners of Vol I, and Vol I and II are now being sold to members of the various Bugatti Clubs. What remains will be sold to non members as has been done before. You can subscribe on a waiting list by sending me a e-mail: keesj@rdgg.nl. I can promise you it will be a very good investment!

Kees Jansen

I cannot find anything about this car having once been stolen in the thread.
Reveiling information is a choice of the owner. This thread shows that by sharing all data, even more information is being generated.

That is what we indeed found out on pg 1 of this thread. Question there is: If it was not De Dobbeleers, who brought this car to the USA then?

Perhaps a good investment, but definately a nice source of information.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Here is what I am still trying to learn out about 37265:
1) With Bugatti factory number of "4127-J4", was my car involved as a factory race car, and is there any racing history on my car?
2) Was Mr. le Baron Guy de Roig ever associated with my car, as an owner or driver? A French magazine said that Baron Guy de Roig owned a Type 37 with a Roadster body. (I am getting a copy of this, but maybe this is how confusion arose whether Guy de Roig owned my car (37265) or 37345 (where his name is listed in the 2003 American Bugatti Registry.
3) 2003 American Bugatti Registry says De Dobbeleer imported my car to US, but DeDobbeleer records don't show 37265. Trying to confirm this and how 37265 was imported to Otto Zipper in US.
4) Car came unblown from factory with engine 155. Engine was changed to 228 ex. 37323. Trying to find out when this happened.
5) Car was supercharged to T37A in 1949 or earlier. Trying to find out when blower was added?
6) ALSO, NEW NEWS - I found out that 37265 went to 7 different districts between 1927 to 1938, and there were "9" different owners of my car between 1927 and 1938. This seems like a LOT of owners.

Bugatti 69 found that the Préfecture du Nord (12 rue Jean Sans Peur, 59800 LILLE, FRANCE) shows registration plate of “9631-MD8” (F) registered there between 1928 and 1950.
1) Is it possible that these 9 owners could have kept the same license plate?
2) I thought you were not allowed to keep the same license plate from owner to owner? Anyone have any information on this?
3) Could there really be 9 different owners, when the license plate was registered in Lille from 1928 to 1950?
4) Could the owner of "9631-MD8" have kept this registration plate on another car he owned, and then transferred this license to 37265 when he purchased it?

On a different note, I need to find an original Brescia water pump,the front shaft and 2 carburetors for a type 35 as a trade for more information on my car. Anyone have any ideas where I could get these parts, and how much they would cost?

VLM,

Andrew

Here is additional information:

"37265 came to Lille, France post-war in 1946"

Can you help me track this license plate again "9631-MD8"? (Christian)

I was told, in France, that "a car can retain the same license plate if the following owners are in the same department." Can you help me understand this?

VLM,

Andrew

Based on the information I am getting, Otto Zipper imported the car directly from the previous owner in Paris, France. As a result, 37265 did not go through Jean de Dobbeleer. In addition, this sources says that the car also did not pass through Jacques Buson. As a result, I will look into this. Any insights would be appreciated.

This resource also has no mention of Guy de Roig being associated with my car. He says he has the complete history from 1927 to 1938, and from 1946 to 1955, so unless Guy de Roig owned the car during the period where he does not have the history, we may also be able to stike Guy de Roig off as being associated with my car, 37265.

Although we might be going backwards with potentially three fewer owners, I think we are moving forward with the true history of 37265.

Just learned a little more about Baron Guy de Roig from a reliable source:

"He was an engineer, living 40 rue François in Paris.

....definitely owned 37345 from jan 1930 to oct 1934. He was at that time at the castle of Jussigny, near by Paris.

Still not sure if he owned 37265"

I remind to you that the registration 9631-MD8 was delivered between 1928 and 1950. in the department of Nord.
That does not specify you the exact year.
A change of owner or Department requires usually a Carte Grise swapping: change of registration

The exact year could be to you given by the Prefecture of Nord in Lille.

With my opinion, only the current owner of the 37265 is entitled to make this request. By justifying its property, copies current and official papers car.

Christian

Christian,

I misunderstood. i thought that this meant that the license plate was with this owner from 1928 to 1950. So, actually, the plate was just delivered and initiated in some year during this time.

The information I received was that the car went to Lille, France in 1946, post-war, so this corresponds to your time frame above.

I guess there might have been earlier license plates, but we do not know those yet.

I have a request into the Prefecture du Nord already.

thanks,

Andrew

9631-MD8 was indeed allotted in 1946

Christian

Here is what I have learned, most recently, and am still trying to learn out about 37265:
1) With Bugatti factory number of "4127-J4", was 37265 involved as a factory race/works car, and is there any racing history on my car?
2) Confirmed that Mr. le Baron Guy de Roig was an owner of 37345 from January 1930 to Oct 1934. Not sure if Baron Guy de Roig was associated with 37265, but i would still like to find out.
3) We have found a resource that knows the widow of the owner in Paris that directly sold 37265 to Otto Zipper in 1956, so there is no DeDobbeleer history with 37265. (and got 55 pictures of 37265 from 1946 to 1951)
4) We have also found a resource that says there is no Jacques Buson history with 37265.
5) I have found the same resource that has complete pre-war history of 37265 from 1927 to 1955. Supposedly, 9 owners of 37265 from 1927 to 1938.
4) Car came unblown from factory with engine 155. Engine was changed to 228 ex. 37323. Engine was out of car in 1949 when original Grand Prix body was changed to Sports Car/Roadster body. Not sure if this is the time when blower was added, but pictures certainly show that blower was on car in 1949.
5) Otto Zipper was owner of both 37265 and 37228 in 1960. When Zipper had Sports Car/Roadster body removed with Bunny Phillips in 1961, he took off "Type 51" Alloy wheels from 37265 and put them on 37228 (P. 54 Vol II, Belgium Register), and then took 37228 "Type 35" Alloy wheels and put them on 37265.

Nice piece of investigation.

So basicly you have the complete history, at least up till 1961, except for the racing history as a works car. Who is to be contacted for that piece of history?

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

I am still investigating.....

I know the complete history from 1956 to 2009, but I know who has (but do not have) the history from 1927 to 1955, and I am trying to learn this. I have learned bits and pieces of this history, but really no details.

Someone else has this complete history, but they are not sharing it with me. The reason is that they would like to be compensated for this information. As the amount of compensation desired is quite high, I am not willing to pay this, in order to learn the pre-war history of my car.

As a result, I will still continue my quest to to research and learn as much as I can about the pre-war history of 37265.

Just like Bugatti Builder has done, I think the free exchange of information about Bugatti's is in everyone's best interest!

Thank you Herman, and everyone else that has contributed to the free exchange of information!