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| Two similar bodies http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1124 |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Two similar bodies |
The black & white photographs are from Album 13 on The Bugatti Trust's website and the colour photo at the bottom is from Wiki. It is a T44 (44637 - Reg. G-5729) with coachwork by D'Ieteren Freres of Brussels. Now compare this car with 46293 (also from Wiki) with coachwork ascribed to Veth & Zoon, quite similar but not identical. Is there a link of some kind between these two cars, or is it mere coincidence? 
Johan Buchner |
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| Author: | jacobug [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Two similar bodies |
Johan Buchner wrote: The black & white photographs are from Album 13 on The Bugatti Trust's website and the colour photo at the bottom is from Wiki. It is a T44 (44637 - Reg. G-5729) with coachwork by D'Ieteren Freres of Brussels. Now compare this car with 46293 (also from Wiki) with coachwork ascribed to Veth & Zoon, quite similar but not identical. Is there a link of some kind between these two cars, or is it mere coincidence?
Johan Buchner |
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| Author: | jacobug [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
indeed, first owner of both cars was the same person, a mr. Klos of Yerseke, Holland. Soon after buying the 44 he found it too small to his liking and then bought the 46 which he had fitted with a beautifull body by the coachbuilders Veth and Sons of Arnhem, Holland. By the way, this company still exist, nowadays they are mainly building bodies on commercial vehicles. Of course d Iteren also exist, they are the belgian importers of the Veyron. Regards Jacobug |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:26 pm ] |
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Wow! Thanks Jacobug, it's the little details that fascinates me. I have a question for you : Why was so few new Bugattis exported to the USA, yet quite a few more were delivered to South America? I would have thought Ettore's obvious admiration for America (and Millers in particular) would have made sales there a priority. Mind you, I could be mistaken, I am basing this argument purely on the fact that no T57S' were ever sold new to America. So perhaps in the interest of accuracy I should pose this question first : How many Americans bought Bugattis? Thanks Johan |
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| Author: | copperkettle [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:15 pm ] |
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Dear Johan: The principle importer of Bugattis into the US during the 1930's was George Rand...who, unfortunately, spoke no French. As a result, the few orders he processed during the Great Depression were generally through Colonel Sorel in London. Chassis 57116, one of the first T57's delivered, was ordered by Rand via Sorel. Other Rand ordered T57's include 57541 (Type 57S Vanden Plas which he was unable to sell and returned to Sorel) and 57806, the L. Cabot Briggs Galibier which was recently sold out of the Williamson collection to Braam-Ruben. Chassis 57733 was the New York World's Fair Atalante which later swapped coachwork with 57766. Prior to the economic stress of the 1930's, 9 or 10 8-Valve cars were delivered new to the US as well as, perhaps 6 to 8 T30's. I am not sure an accurate count is known or even knowable, but it is true that the US was not much of a market for Bugatti automobiles when they were new. CK |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This is turning out to be one of the most fact-filled threads in a long time, thanks Copperkettle. Mike's query about the Aravis makes it 2 great threads in one day, and we have a new correspondent, a model collector. And perhaps if the gentleman should read this this he can tell us when CMC will be releasing the rumoured Atlantic? But that's for another part of the forum - you think there's too many forums? Anyway, back to topic, this is, as far as I know, the only Murphy bodied Bugatti, 38435 now owned by Jay Leno. The first mention of this 1927 car in Wiki is the 1933 movie "Christopher Strong" with Katherine Hepburn (second picture) I am not sure, but the body looks a little later than '27. Is this the first body? Was this car delivered to the US originally? Can anyone add any more info? 
Kind Regards Johan |
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| Author: | copperkettle [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:38 pm ] |
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The Murphy-bodied car, 38435 was bought by Charles Howard, the California Buick dealer, perhaps best known as the owner of the legendary horse, "Seabiscuit" as a chassis off the floor of the Paris Salon in 1927. He also bought chassis 38438 which was already "clothed" with a Lavocat et Marsaud touring body. I am told by Randy Ema, the restorer of the Murphy-bodied car, that the Murphy coachworks were next door to one of Howard's Buick dealerships, so, naturally, they were chosen to do the bodywork on 38435. They also made a few modifications to 38438. I am glad you mentioned T38's...at a minimum, 38435, 38436, 38437 and 38438 all came to the US when new. (These were all supercharged cars.) There were possibly 3 or 4 other unblown T38's which made there way here as new cars, including 38221 and 38407. CK |
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| Author: | Legaleagle [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Type 38 with Figoni body. |
This is what I know about Charles Howard : HOWARD Jnr., Charles. One of two brothers from Northern California who were “sportsmen, polo players and drivers of fast cars” and owned a pair of Grand Prix Bugattis. He was a member of the “Howard Buick clan” which owned the distribution rights for Buick cars in western America. He imported into California a type 38, fitted with a yellow and black Figoni DHC body, which he had purchased in Paris. He tired of the car’s temperament and exhanged it for a Chevrolet DHC owned by a young and impressionable Eri Richardson. Does anyone know the chassis no. of the type 38 and of the two GP mentioned ? |
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| Author: | copperkettle [ Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:16 pm ] |
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Legaleagle: The T38 was chassis no. 38348 with engine no. 224. The engine survives (in T30 chassis 4209, another original US delivery), but the car does not. It seems logical to assume that the "Bunny" Phillips T35, chassis no. 4748 was one of the Howard T35's, but this is speculation. Prior to Phillips' ownership, it was owned by Frank Spring, the well-regarded Hudson executive as well as designer of the Nash Metropolitan (among others.) Spring was employed by the Murphy coachwork company in the late 1920's, early 1930's and he bought 38438 from Howard...perhaps an exchange was made! CK |
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