some time ago, there was a question, what happened to the ex-lips autodron bugattis, a T57 corsica and a brescia bugatti.
yesterday I came across the museum`s catalogue, I bought when I
visited the museum in 1984. there had been two more bugattis in this
collection:
a 1926 T35 ( wire spoked)
a 1939 T57 aravis ( at that time, one of three existing aravis)

where had this two gone ?

regards
mike

Type 57 Roadster 4 seat Corsica
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=57153

Type 23 Brescia
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=2711

you are quite right, but I`m asking for the other two:
the T35 and the T57 aravis !!!!!

regards
mike

Hi Mike

This is 57732 - see Wiki. Is this the T57 you are referring to? I am afraid I know nothing about it's present whereabouts, but Wiki gives the owner as one Wilfred Dauphin (D). Pretty car no?





Johan

Hi Mike, again.

Besides 57732, I have found a further 5 cars called Aravis. (What a wondrous tool Wiki is!) Which are the 3 'real' Aravis convertibles, and which is the one you are referring to? None of them contain any mention of either Lip or Autodron.

And even if the answer remains a mystery for a while, thanks for giving me an excuse to post pics of some of the best looking Bugattis ever built. One last question : In the Conway/Greilshamer book there is a photo of a black & red coupe said to have been a converted Aravis, does anyone know more? I can't seem to find it in Wiki.

Thanks
Johan




57710





57736





57768





57798





57826

thanks. I will check it. in the book of price: T57, there are also only three different existing aravis pictured. I remember one (light blue) , which I had seen in an english collection in the 8o`s and the lips one.
please dont ask me, from where I remember, that there only are three original aravis left. maybe in the meantime some other turned up, or had been rebodied to an aravis.
I remember seeing the lips aravis cramped into a corner, so you could `nt see the gracios longlines body.
the photo in the catalogue is very bad ( small dark b&w pic on dark green paper, so you can hardly see the car).

best regards
mike

57768 was the Aravis at Lips Autotron. For many, many years the car belonged to mr. Rudy van Daalen Wetters who lived in the USA. All these years the car remained his property even though. it was shown at Autotron. Whenever he was in Europe he used it quite a lot.Lovely original car, lovely patina which unfortunately has been completely lost. Regards Jacobug

"Lovely original car, lovely patina which unfortunately has been completely lost. Regards Jacobug"

Do not get me started! I really thought the Rudy van Daalen Wetters colour scheme was so much more flattering too, that's gone now as well. Thanks for bringing this matter up Jacobug, many contributors are sick to death of my continual whining about restorers and owners vandalising original Bugattis, but yours is a new voice. Welcome, again.

Ah screw it, what do you make of EXK 6's new livery then? And don't you think 57533 will look much better in its original blue metallic than the present two-tone burgundy? And then there is ......... no wait, I will stir that pot in a later post.

Thanks again Jacobug, and post more, I prefer a man of conviction over the mealy-mouthed fence-sitter any day of the week.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner

thanks for identifying 57768. when at lips it wore a french # plate
2139 CK 7?
it also had two small lights in front of the radiator. and indeed, my friends, I can remember it was totally original. I visited lips first in 1984 when I saw the car. one year later, in 1985 ( I think so) lips moved to a new building
some miles away from the old, but the aravis was no longer on show.

T57736, as I now remember belonged to the collection of the earl of moray, which I have seen around the same time. think museum now closed ??

thanks for all your enquires
mike

The first photo I've seen of 57768 was in Hugh Conway's The Type 57 Bugatti published by Profile Publications in 1966. What I mean is, I only saw the photo during the 1980's, but it was published in '66, and then the next one I saw was a colour photo on Jaap Horst's The Bugatti Page during the late 1990's, all the while it remained in that lovely original condition.

Mind you, so elegant are those lines, even a clinical restoration and a change of colour cannot detract (much) from such beauty. Perhaps it's time to revisit the thread about a list of 5 favourite Bugattis.

Playing around on Wiki (it's a very quiet day at work) I noticed that 2 of the Aravis are by Letourner et Marchand (57732 & 57826) and 1 is a re-bodied Atalante (57710) which leaves 3 Gangloff bodied Aravis T57's (57736, 57768 & 57798) Perhaps these are the 3 survivors?

Johan

PS. Mike the registration for 57768 was 2139 CK 75 (F) Have a look at the two photos at the bottom of the Wiki chapter

when I strolled through the price "T57" book, I came to the same conclusion. three ganglof aravis.

mike

This is the Van Daalen Wetters Aravis, in use by himself during a rally in the Netherlands.

After Mr. Van Daalen Wetters died, the car was sold to the USA, and extensively restored, colors changed.

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com

Only now have I noticed something else changed during the restoration. Look at the chrome strip running from the front of the bonnet and which then curve downward towards the rear, ending at the front of the rear wing. When the car was restored this chrome strip was changed so that it now follows the break between the blue and cream. As original it was both elegant and unexpected - now it just looks crass and predictable.

Thanks for the photo Jaap, now I can celebrate her as she was. Beautiful things matter.

Johan

The T35A is #4757. See Neth/B Register. Got a new owner recently.
Bugwrench

Herewith the available information on this T35A

Chassis Number : 4757
Engine Number : 90A
Factory Date : May 1926
Delivered to : Dubuisson in St. Quentin

The above is from Grand Prix Bugatti 2004. Wiki lists the following owners : Jan Smits, Autotron Rosmalen, Olivier Herbosch, Dubuisson (?), Leon Bonnet & R Voerman. (This list is a little confusing) Conway states the car as being in Belgium in 2004, Wiki gives the current owner as Tonnie van der Velden of the Netherlands. I am not quite sure if the recent change of ownership was when the car moved from Belgium to Mr. van der Velden, or if Mr. van der Velden sold the car, perhaps Bugwrench can clarify. Also, as can be seen from the photos it certainly looks like an original car in good, but not over-restored condition. I have learned though that looks can be deceiving, Bugwrench do you have any knowledge of its previous owners, its provenance and real condition?

Thanks for the info Bugwrench. Mike, I think you may now consider your questioned answered - thanks for the opportunity to expand the communal knowledge.

Johan







PS. Myself and Uwe has been debating the Junek T35s, and I undertook to do a post on them. But I feel a major attack of lazy coming on, so to force myself into action, I am now stating in public that I will start a thread on the Junek cars. If this thread has not appeared by the end of the weekend, perhaps someone can start making sarcastic comments? There, I think that should do it.