101505

J.J.Horst · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:31 am

There are only a few T101's of course, and all known.

Still, 101505 seems to be missing. Now I recall that there was a T101 Chassis in the Schlumpf museum. Could this be 101505, or is this a modified T57 with a T57 chassis number??

Uwe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm **Posts:** 2285

Type 57S #57375 with engine no.: 101505

J.J.Horst · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:41 pm

Thanks.

Is there a T101 chassis in Mulhouse? And if yes, with what number??

Johan Buchner · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:32 pm

A small correction : 57375 was originally fitted with engine 3S and frame number 13 and then I looked further down the page and it was a case of Hello-what-the-hell-is-this-? Simon p.96 Engine number 101 505-57375-3S-21. And to think I like to consider myself a bit of an expert on the Type 57S, I have both Laugier and Simon you know. Could someone please explain these Bugatti hieroglyphs to me?

Now, onto 101505, allow me to throw a theory in the ring : The blue 101 Gangloff Coupe presently in the Schlumpf collection carries the chassis number 57454, which, oddly enough, is the last chassis number carried by the missing Atlantic 'works' car. It had this chassis number when the list of the cars to be sent to Bordeaux was compiled, then it disappeared. (the car, not the list.) The Type 101 chassis numbers run from 101500 (prototype saloon) to 101506 (Ghia Roadster), but nowhere is 101505 mentioned, just 57454. I wonder who made the mistake, Roland Bugatti, Fritz Schlumpf or me?

What do you think?

Johan

Uwe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm **Posts:** 2285

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... le=57454-3

wiki entry for #57454 type 101:
Built in 1951 on the frame 57454 of type 57G.

I think this can be not correct. The type 57G chassis is shorter as a normal type 57 chassis. How is the wheelbase from this car ?.

Herman · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:21 am

It looks "normal" to me.

Did they lengthen the chassis?

A Bugattibuilder.com delegation should really go to the museum with a tape measure...

Perhaps a good idea to make a list of mysteries that could be solved by inspecting the cars...

Uwe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm **Posts:** 2285

Yes, a very good idea to make a list of mysteries cars...

Johan Buchner · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:41 pm

The number 57454 has been used on at least 3 cars 57453 (the black Atlantic) wore this number when it disappeared, at least one T57G used it (the surviving T57G still carries this number by the way) and it was used as the chassis number for a T64 Coupe (see Wiki - I did not know this) and now it is also on the blue 101 (see Uwe's photo). Another number that was used more than once is 57103, and collector John North's Atalante has chassis number 57456, which also saw use on one of the 57G tanks.

I wonder how the curators of the Schlumpf Collection will react if a whole lot of us, armed with tape-measures, should descend on their museum. Not well, methinks. I know from experience they do not respond to e-mails - not English e-mails at any rate.

I have received some new info regarding the possible disappearance of 101505, but I will only be able to do that post tonight, first I have to send some research to America. It never ceases to amaze me how many people mistake me for a real Bugatti historian. Heaven help me should the truth ever come out, so please don't say anything, I like the illusion.

Regards
Johan

Timmmmmmmmmmy · **Joined:** Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:38 pm **Posts:** 3

There can only be two possible explanations

1 - They had built a new car and didnt want the expense of registering etc. so they simply numbered it using a number that would already have been used, which they certainly did with other vehicle's. This was also done by Maserati, Ferrari, Porsche and others.

2 - They went to the time and expense of disassembling the Type 57G and then shortening the chassis and finally building the Type 101.

It would surely be the former ??

IMHO

Tim

Johan Buchner · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:06 pm

Turns out not to be a mystery after all, the history of 57314 (both of them) is quite well known - see Wiki. I thought the T101 frame and engine this car received post-war may have been 101505. Seems unlikely though, unless anyone knows more? Still does not explain how 57375 ended up with engine number 101505 though. Jaap's original question still stands : Is there a T101 chassis in the Schlumpf collection? If so, is it 101505?

Regards
Johan

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:50 pm

From Email:

<img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/757/image.jpg" alt="image">

J.J.Horst · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:18 am

According to the big Schlumpf book, they have a chassis which is a hybrid T57/101. Probably a modified T57. No chassisnumber mentioned (or not present?).

Uwe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm **Posts:** 2285

Type 101 unknown

Hunter · **Joined:** Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:51 pm **Posts:** 119

See Bugatti Trust Album 18 picture 366.

MBW · **Joined:** Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:56 am **Posts:** 2

Hi Jaap,

in the Schlumpf reserve there are two chassis that look like T101 specification. One is chassis # 57464, so definitely a converted T57. The other chassis # is unknown. The unknown car can be seen in the book "Die Automobile der Gebrüder Schlumpf" from 1979. Page 101 shows a photo with the subtitle "Bugatti T101 Chassis 1951". In the map on page 180 the same car is described as T57/T101 Chassis. So I'm quite sure it's "only" another converted T57 and not 101505.
But this (quite faulty) book might be the reason for the rumors regarding a bare T101 Chassis in the Schlumpf collection.

I send you two photos (one of each chassis) via email. I won't post the photos here, because I don't have any copyrights. Sorry to the others!

Kind Regards
Kay Hottendorff
mbwestwood@hotmail.com

101505

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