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| A small clarification required if you don't mind. http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1151 |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A small clarification required if you don't mind. |
The history of the four T59s sold to British racing drivers in 1935 are quite well-known, but I have a question about colours. Looking at Alain Bouissou's website I saw pictures of his red T59 and of Ralph Lauren's black one but I see that the red T59 does not include the chassis number and is said to be the Spanish G.P. car driven by Tazio Nuvolari. I also remember reading that one of the original British owners had his T59 painted black, but now I am not so sure. Herewith what I do know : 59121 : C.E.C. (Charlie) Martin - painted British Racing Green 59122 : Lindsay Eccles - was this car painted black upon its arrival in the UK? 59123 : Earl Howe - painted his favourite shade of dark blue. 59124 : Noel Rees - for Brian Lewis (I did not know this, I thought the original owner was Brian Lewis - another triumph for Wiki) This is the car I believed, wrongly it would seem, to have been painted red. Can somebody please clarify? For some reason it is these little details that fascinate me. To change the subject slightly, the T35 is so delicately pretty, the T54 so brutally beautiful and the T59 so elegant, I can spend hours comparing them trying the figure out which one I like best. Never been able to come up with a definitive choice though. What do you think? Kind Regards Johan |
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| Author: | Herman [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A small clarification required if you don't mind. |
Johan Buchner wrote: To change the subject slightly, the T35 is so delicately pretty, the T54 so brutally beautiful and the T59 so elegant, I can spend hours comparing them trying the figure out which one I like best. Never been able to come up with a definitive choice though. What do you think?
Kind Regards Johan No idea. I would say: Take them all.... No clue about the colour. aothough it will not surprise me if the model is wrong in colour. Who knows? |
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| Author: | Hunter [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Eccles, Lindsay. |
As far as I know all Lindsay Eccles's cars were painted dark green with black wheels, mudguards, etc. If you want further details, join the VSCC and look up his step-daughter's phone number in the membership list. She has an archive of Lindsay Eccles material. |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Hunter. I must admit I've never considered membership of the VSCC. I was always under the impression poor people aren't allowed in. Johan |
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| Author: | Uwe [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Does someone have information about 3.8-litres ?. Thanks. <img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/228/59122.jpg" alt="#59122"> |
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| Author: | Hunter [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Car 59122 |
See article by Ivan Carr in Bugantics May 1950 "A modified Type 59". |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Uwe, both for the photos and the e-mail. You really have opened a can of worms here, and I am utterly confused. Your theory that this may have been a T50B engine of 3.8l (and therefore this car being a T57S40) may not be correct (although I do not know this as fact) but nor was I aware that any of the 3.3l T59 engines had been enlarged to 3.8l. They did start start out with a capacity of 2.8l though - can an engine's capacity be increased by nearly 25% ? One last thing Uwe, from the photos you sent me I gather that 59122 was the red Spanish G.P. car, but I still do not know what colour it was when owned by its first British owner. A 3.8l T59? Live and learn hey? Help! Please. Merry Christmas Johan |
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| Author: | Uwe [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Reference: Centenaire Ettore Bugatti 1881-1991 (page 86) In Monaco, in 1936 two types 59 with engine 3.8 L were also present; Jean-Pierre Wimille contolled one to replace the single-seater ot them and Williams the other, but having much less power than their German and Italien competitors, they could make better only finish with the sixth and ninth places. <a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/t59-monaco1936.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/normal_t59-monaco1936.jpg" alt="Type 59 #unknown"></a> <a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/T59_monaco1936.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/normal_T59_monaco1936.jpg" alt="Type 59 #unknown "></a> <a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/T59_Wimille-no_16.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/normal_T59_Wimille-no_16.jpg" alt="Type 59"></a> |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks to Uwe I have gathered the following : the red Spanish Grand Prix car was 59122. I still have no idea as to what colour it was when delivered to Eccles. Does this mean that 59124 was black during Lewis' ownership? To some people a car's racing history is important, for me it's the arcane details. Am I correct in believing that 59121 is the only T59 not restored by C & G? You see? Arcane. Johan |
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| Author: | GCL-Wales [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Car 59122 |
The Lemon Burton type 59 was over-bored in the UK (I think by Lindsay Eccles) to give 3.8 lites capacity and has no connection with the works cars also enlarged to 3.8. |
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| Author: | Uwe [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10012/cmam0061933theclimbupbeaurivagele5.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10012/normal_cmam0061933theclimbupbeaurivagele5.jpg" alt="Type 59 at the Grand Prix de Monaco 1934"></a> <a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10012/sshortlivedglory7xj.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10012/normal_sshortlivedglory7xj.jpg" alt="Bugatti Type 59 at the Grand Prix de "></a> |
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| Author: | GCL-Wales [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Type 59 - 50B. |
We have been incorrectly using the term "59-50B" to describe cars using type 59 chassis frame components into which the (generally larger) type 50B engine had been fitted. From around 1935 the factory chose to refer to such cars as type 50B pure and simple. This designation applied to single and two seater versions including a car intended for the 1938 Mille Miglia fitted with a 170 litre petrol tank but never completed. Definition : When used to to describe a complete car, the type no. "50B" was used by Molsheim to mean a car which used an engine with an aluminium, magnesium or other light-alloy block/head with a different clutch to the type 59, and a redesigned constant-mesh gearbox. Whilst the chassis frame utilisted pre-existing type 59 side-rails, the 50B had cross-members which attracted a type 50B designation, as did the rear axle with its magnesium main casting and a ZF limited-slip differential. |
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| Author: | Hunter [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 59124 - Colour - attention Johan. |
For no good reason, I always thought that C.I. Craig's stable of top-drawer Bugattis were painted black and white. I now understand that they were painted a garish "lustrous yellow and black" |
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