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Simeone type 35
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Author:  xlr8by [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:03 am ]
Post subject:  Simeone type 35
Guys,
I am new to the board, and very interested in the French built Bugatti's. I have been lucky enough to recently view a lovely pair that reside in the Simeone foundation museum in Philadelphia, PA. The 57 G "Tank" car that won the 1937 Le mans race is in the collection and a wild car to see. But, what I really was drawn to was the small 1926 type 35. Anyone know the history of this car? All I know is that is may have participated in the 1927 Targa Florio? Here is a link to a picture. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bsgalio/26 ... 813926036/ Thank you and I look forward to participating in this forum.
Erik
Author:  bugatti69 [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
to see: http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... ed_Simeone
Author:  Herman [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... _%28USA%29

Welcome to the board, Erik. Hop you enjoy it. Lots of reading, feel free to respond on whatever you like.

As you can see, the Simeone T35 chassis number is not known here at the moment. Actually my father is compiling a list of musea, which have Bugattis on display (see the WIKI). Next step is to find out the chassis numbers. Most musea do not mention them, some are not willing to share them at all. Some work to do...
Fun part of this website is that anyone can jump in and add the info he has.

Best regards,

Herman
Author:  xlr8by [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Herman wrote:
Actually my father is compiling a list of musea, which have Bugattis on display (see the WIKI). Next step is to find out the chassis numbers. Most musea do not mention them, some are not willing to share them at all. Some work to do...
Fun part of this website is that anyone can jump in and add the info he has.

Best regards,

Herman

Herman,
Thanks for welcoming me to the group, and maybe I can help your father out. I have been reading through the Bugatti wiki and a type38a is missing from the Bugatti's in museum section. See this link for the 1927 Bugatti type 38 A Grand Sport located at the JWR museum a couple hours outside Philadelphia, PA. http://www.jwrautomuseum.com/vehicles/1927bs.html
The Chassis number is 38470. I don't know how to update the wiki.
Erik
Author:  Herman [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Updating the WIKI is simple, I will make a tutorial video on that later. (do a search for "bugattibuilder" on youtube and you will get some videos on posting pictures already (no sound). Also some racing Bugattis.

But I am sure someone else will take the opportunity to update the WIKI already. If you check "recent changes" you will see that Bugatti69 (Christian Anicet) is very active on that.

However, great info, much appreciated. Surprisingly many Bugattis in musea, and for most of them, not much is known. I want to change that.
Author:  bugatti69 [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
That was done:

To see : http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... _%28USA%29
Author:  Bugwrench [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Herman wrote:
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=Philly_race_car_Museum_-_The_Simeone_Foundation_Museum_-_Philadelphia_%28USA%29

Welcome to the board, Erik. Hop you enjoy it. Lots of reading, feel free to respond on whatever you like.

As you can see, the Simeone T35 chassis number is not known here at the moment. Actually my father is compiling a list of musea, which have Bugattis on display (see the WIKI). Next step is to find out the chassis numbers. Most musea do not mention them, some are not willing to share them at all. Some work to do...
Fun part of this website is that anyone can jump in and add the info he has.

Best regards,

Herman


This is 4752.
Bugwrench
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Bugwrench.

To expand herewith the info for 4752 courtesy of Conway's Grand Prix Bugatti (2004 ed.) :

T35 / Chassis No. 4752 / Eng No. 69 / delivered March 1926 to Materazzo in San Paulo. I am fairly sure Materazzo was the Bugatti agent. No mention of any racing history. Anyone got the details of this car's journey from San Paulo in '26 to Dr. Simeone's ownership?

Slowly but surely Wiki grows ever more complete.

Thanks again Bugwrench.

Johan

PS. Sorry for the extra work Christian!
Author:  bugatti69 [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
-

4752 updated on wiki :

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4752

Christian
Author:  Bugwrench [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
bugatti69 wrote:
-

4752 updated on wiki :

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4752

Christian


But incorrect!
4752 is NOT a 35A!
Bugwrench
Author:  bugatti69 [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
The purple GP is Bugatti 35 chassisnumber 4752. The car was produced in
February 1926 with engine 69 as a Course Imitation 2 litre with a Grand
Prix body. It was ordered by the Bugatti agent Matarazzo in Sao Paolo in
Brazil on March 23 and shipped on March 129, 1926. He paid Frs 76.500
for it.

The car stayed in South America: In 1931 it was in Buenos Aires in
Argentina where it was bought by Paul Ivanos, a cameraman for earley
sound pictures from Hollywood and taken to the US. He swapped it for a
Chrysler '75' roadster with Bunny Phillips in 1932. Bunny Phillips
overhauled the engine and sold it thereafter to Tom Ince later that
year. The next owner was Tetze and then before the war- still on the
East Coast of the US- it went to Al Crundall. It was a well known and
often seen car there where it participated in many competitions.

After the War it went to the East coast where it was reportedly raced
at Linden Airport in the fifties and where it was owned by Bob Morgan,
Larry Kulack, Harry Gray en Bill Wonder (Glen Cove, New York) before it
came into the hands of Steve Juillerat, the father of David.The next
owners were Art Jacobs, then Bill Serri (Merchantville New Jersey) and
Edward Gilmour after which it came into the hands of Fred Simeone in
Philadelphia when it enjoyed a leasurely retirement in Simeone's
collection for the last 20 years or so. The car is described as 99 %
original; still has its original engine; a very unusual feature for
Grand Prix types 35! The only main deviation from original is that it
has non- standard needle bearings in the big ends.

Kees Jansen
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Question : Is Type Lyon an acceptable term for all early 2l, non supercharged, small radiator T35's? And while I am at it, T35T is a 2.3l non supercharged car ; a T35C is the 2l with a supercharger and the 2.3l with a supercharger is known as a T35TC or a T35B?

Thanks
Johan
Author:  Bugwrench [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
bugatti69 wrote:
The purple GP is Bugatti 35 chassisnumber 4752. The car was produced in
February 1926 with engine 69 as a Course Imitation 2 litre with a Grand
Prix body. It was ordered by the Bugatti agent Matarazzo in Sao Paolo in
Brazil on March 23 and shipped on March 129, 1926. He paid Frs 76.500
for it.

The car stayed in South America: In 1931 it was in Buenos Aires in
Argentina where it was bought by Paul Ivanos, a cameraman for earley
sound pictures from Hollywood and taken to the US. He swapped it for a
Chrysler '75' roadster with Bunny Phillips in 1932. Bunny Phillips
overhauled the engine and sold it thereafter to Tom Ince later that
year. The next owner was Tetze and then before the war- still on the
East Coast of the US- it went to Al Crundall. It was a well known and
often seen car there where it participated in many competitions.

After the War it went to the East coast where it was reportedly raced
at Linden Airport in the fifties and where it was owned by Bob Morgan,
Larry Kulack, Harry Gray en Bill Wonder (Glen Cove, New York) before it
came into the hands of Steve Juillerat, the father of David.The next
owners were Art Jacobs, then Bill Serri (Merchantville New Jersey) and
Edward Gilmour after which it came into the hands of Fred Simeone in
Philadelphia when it enjoyed a leasurely retirement in Simeone's
collection for the last 20 years or so. The car is described as 99 %
original; still has its original engine; a very unusual feature for
Grand Prix types 35! The only main deviation from original is that it
has non- standard needle bearings in the big ends.

Kees Jansen


I assume you suggest the above information comes from Kees Jansen.
I do not think the reference to a "Course Imitation" is correct. I have not seen any reference to 35A in any Register, the engine number does not carry an A and the mentioned needle bearings are compatible with a 35 but not likely with a 35A engine. We will have to ask Kees where he got the information from.
Bugwrench
Author:  Bugwrench [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Johan Buchner wrote:
Question : Is Type Lyon an acceptable term for all early 2l, non supercharged, small radiator T35's? And while I am at it, T35T is a 2.3l non supercharged car ; a T35C is the 2l with a supercharger and the 2.3l with a supercharger is known as a T35TC or a T35B?

Thanks
Johan


For me a "Lyon" is exactly what is says: a T35 that raced at Lyon 1924.
All later 2liter unblown cars cars should in my view be called what they are: T35. The C, T and TC or B are of course as you described. You should add the T39 of which at least the 39, 39A and 39D are known. I think the B and C are only drawing numbers but perhaps somebody else can fill- in.
Bugwrench
Author:  xlr8by [ Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Bugwrench wrote:

I assume you suggest the above information comes from Kees Jansen.
I do not think the reference to a "Course Imitation" is correct. I have not seen any reference to 35A in any Register, the engine number does not carry an A and the mentioned needle bearings are compatible with a 35 but not likely with a 35A engine. We will have to ask Kees where he got the information from.
Bugwrench

What is meant by Course Imitation? Also, what was this cars history in South America? Why was it there?
Erik
PS Nice to see that Wiki updated :)
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