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4048

4008

David Sewell's Bugatti Register is now in use, and immediately the confusion starts. According to the Register the Raahauge T30 (4289/ eng.278) is the oldest surviving 8-cylinder touring Bugatti. In Wiki I discovered a surviving T30 with an even lower chassis number : 4008/ eng. 4003. This engine number is also the chassis number of the racing T29/30 that shares the Registration number SV8615 with 4008. However I see that the first meeting mentioned for this car is the 2003 Retromobile and the Sewell Register I have dates from 1989 with amendment lists up to 1996.

The following questions : When and where was 4008 discovered? Does the lower chassis number mean that it is older than 4289? How original is it? And finally, David Sewell has a Continuous History : Yes or No, after each car. What is the correct definition of continuous history? Does a continuous history mean the car is original?

Final thought : Wiki is damn impressive.

Regards.
Johan

Author:	Johan Buchner [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Enigma of a Type 30
4048 4008 David Sewell's Bugatti Register is now in use, and immediately the confusion starts. According to the Register the Raahauge T30 (4289/ eng.278) is the oldest surviving 8-cylinder touring Bugatti. In Wiki I discovered a surviving T30 with an even lower chassis number : 4008/ eng. 4003. This engine number is also the chassis number of the racing T29/30 that shares the Registration number SV8615 with 4008. However I see that the first meeting mentioned for this car is the 2003 Retromobile and the Sewell Register I have dates from 1989 with amendment lists up to 1996. The following questions : When and where was 4008 discovered? Does the lower chassis number mean that it is older than 4289? How original is it? And finally, David Sewell has a Continuous History : Yes or No, after each car. What is the correct definition of continuous history? Does a continuous history mean the car is original? Final thought : Wiki is damn impressive. Regards. Johan

Author:	J.J.Horst [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:
On the stand of Christoph Grohe at Retromobile 2003, the new edition of 4008, the ex U.Hucke Strassbourg car, now with a body similar to the ex Junek 22/30, surely a body which is more usable for a client than the 29/30 monoposto body which it had before that. The first body is like the one below, however, Wiki says that's 4004. I do not know how much of the car is a replica, but at least both bodies on 4008 were replica's! From Christoph Grohe in 2003: T30 compétition, roadster, chassis #4008 (Type 23), engine #4003. Delivered on November 16th, 1922 with a body "course - réservoir ovale". Uwe Hucke acquired it in 1968 and rebodied it in the way "Grand Prix of Strasbourg" (cigar). Restored recently with a more useful body, a copy of Elizabeth Junek's type 30 (#4001 ). It is the most early Bugatti 8 cylinder known. Available survey report on inquiry.

Author:	Bugwrench [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Enigma of a Type 30
Johan Buchner wrote: 4048 4008 David Sewell's Bugatti Register is now in use, and immediately the confusion starts. According to the Register the Raahauge T30 (4289/ eng.278) is the oldest surviving 8-cylinder touring Bugatti. In Wiki I discovered a surviving T30 with an even lower chassis number : 4008/ eng. 4003. This engine number is also the chassis number of the racing T29/30 that shares the Registration number SV8615 with 4008. However I see that the first meeting mentioned for this car is the 2003 Retromobile and the Sewell Register I have dates from 1989 with amendment lists up to 1996. The following questions : When and where was 4008 discovered? Does the lower chassis number mean that it is older than 4289? How original is it? And finally, David Sewell has a Continuous History : Yes or No, after each car. What is the correct definition of continuous history? Does a continuous history mean the car is original? Final thought : Wiki is damn impressive. Regards. Johan Do you mean 4048? 4289 is not mentioned as being owned by Raahauge 4008 most probably did not start life as a Touring Bugatti. Does that answer your question? Continuous history does not mean that a car is original. It means that the history of the car has no gaps and is known for each minute of its life. All modifications (making it perhaps not longer original!) included. Bugwrench PS I am less impressed with WIKI than you seem to be.

Author:	Johan Buchner [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks Gentlemen. If we accept that this car is a racer (whatever its correct chassis number may be), then 4048 (4248 is a misprint - Thanks Bugwrench.) may very well be the oldest touring 8 cylinder. Incidentally, I checked the 1922 production date of the above car against that of the T32 tank, and the first year associated with the T32 is 1923 and the T35 was unveiled in 1924. These dates give an interesting insight into Ettore's way of thinking - after spending the early post WW1 years establishing the 4 cylinder cars, he then turned his attention to 8 cylinder engines, but only on his third try did he succeed in designing a car best able to exploit these engines' full potential. Quickly realising that his T35 can handle a lot more power he then set about enlarging and improving the engine. Not forgetting sales potential, first the T35A and then the T37 was put onto the market, profits from which enabled to expand his model range very rapidly indeed. Mind you, Norbert Steinhauser points out that even though the model line-up expanded, overall production figures did not rise by that much. I always believed that Bugatti was more or less finished by 1939, now I am beginning to doubt that belief. Ettore, helped by Jean, kept Bugatti alive during the dark days of the Great Depression, who is to say Ettore would not have been able to pull of another miracle post WWII? Of course this is a topic for idle speculation, Ettore did die, and after a surprisingly long time, so did Bugatti. Today the name Bugatti lives on in the Veyron. As to whether it is a real Bugatti, now that is another topic for idle speculation methinks. Kind Regards Johan PS. Bugwrench wrote : "I am less impressed with WIKI than you seem to be." That's because you know more than me, and remember, Wiki is a work in progress.

Author:	Herman [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Johan Buchner wrote: ... PS. Bugwrench wrote : "I am less impressed with WIKI than you seem to be." That's because you know more than me, and remember, Wiki is a work in progress. Wiki is an eternal work of progress, started from scratch. It is a place where everyone can contribute. Feel free to do so. Only flaw is the mentioning of sources. I am working on a technical solution for that.

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Author:	bugatti69 [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Herman wrote: Johan Buchner wrote: ... PS. Bugwrench wrote : "I am less impressed with WIKI than you seem to be." That's because you know more than me, and remember, Wiki is a work in progress. Wiki is an eternal work of progress, started from scratch. It is a place where everyone can contribute. Feel free to do so. Only flaw is the mentioning of sources. I am working on a technical solution for that. to see update: http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4008 http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4003 Excuse my English speech, I use a translator of Internet: you have information, knowledge, you criticize wiki… But few contributors directly bring information which I assume with more than 80%. it is an enormous work, more than 2800 cards of Bugatti since less than 2 years Christian

Author:	Herman [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
Keep up the good work, Christian.

Author:	Johan Buchner [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:20 am ]
Post subject:
I feel it my duty to not only agree with Herman, but also to add another note of gratitude. Thank you Christian, because of your, and a select few other's, hard work WIKI has become a continuously evolving register for this marque we all love so very much. Thanks Again Johan Buchner PS. "There are no monuments for critics." Can't remember who said that, but I like it all the same.

Author:	hortig78rpm [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:42 am ]
Post subject:
the photo of "the cigar " does`nt show "cigar" but the T29/3o indianapolis racer, also rebuilt by uwe hucke !!! regards mike

Author:	Johan Buchner [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:13 am ]
Post subject:
Hi Mike Do you have the correct chassis and engine number for the "cigar" racer? And also, can you confirm or correct the chassis numbers given for the Indianapolis racer? Thanks Johan

Author:	J.J.Horst [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:42 am ]
Post subject:
The 29/30 racer was the "first" body on the chassis that is now called 4008. Probably the body was removed, and put on another chassis? I called it "cigar" by mistake, I know that that's an altogether different car. And yes, those who fill the Wiki, especially the chassis number database, do deserve a tremendous "THANK YOU", I know how much work is involved in filling in all the info!

Author:	bugatti69 [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:24 am ]
Post subject:
To see: # 4004 http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4004 # 4004R by Uwe Hucke (chassis unknown) http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... tle=4004_R # 4008 rebodied by Uwe hucke > now body type 30 roadster http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4008 Chassis Unknown : Type 30 Indianopolis Alzaga (# 4015 or 4016) http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... lis_Alzaga Type 30 Indianopolis Riganti (# 4015 or 4016) http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... is_Riganti

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