Here is another old pic, approx. 1948, that i was able to secure for 37265:

37265 is 2nd car back with #33. Does anyone know where this is, or what race or hillclimb it might be? It is in approx. 1928 or 1929.


Also, here is 37265 with #34. this is in 1928. Does anyone know what race had #34 in it at around this time?


Thanks!

I followed this thread, but obviously not all of it, as I just now realized the comprehensive log issued by Pierre-Yves Laugier.
Chapeau!

There was historical research long before the internet was invented, and not everybody who knows how Google works is a historian. Real professional research requires 3 things:
- an extensive personal archive (who of you has a 1925 telephone book of Perigueux, or a 1935 "Who’s Who" of Marseille in his book rack?)
- a widespread network (there's no need to know everything, but you must know the one who knows).
- shutting down the computer and remember that there's something called "paper". In ancient times it has been used mainly for printing, e.g. books, newspapers, race programmes, and also photos. It also was used for writing letters, personal notes, and official forms like car registrations.

How much hours did Pierre-Yves spent to research all these details? How much kilometers did he drive, and much telephone charges had been paid? Okay, most probably some of his work can be considered as "by-product" together with other researches, but a lot is very specific.

What was he asking - abt. 1 % of the car's value? With this full history you increased it surely by 10 %! What's the hour rate of your plumber? Or even better - that of your lawyer? Don't want to know the price of this car log, but for your own pleasure, calculate it into lawyer hours. And not to forget - there are millions of lawyers, but only a handful of Bugatti specialists of the caliber of Pierre-Yves Laugier.

Yes if he had only written and thanked ME for the information he asked me for and which I took the trouble to write down and send to him [ before computors] I would be happy with him.

I am certainly in the debt of Mr. Pierre Yves Laugier! I do not think anyone else could have found out all this information about 37265. (and thanks to everyone that shared information with him)

That being said, there are a few gaps in the history that i would like to track down.

Here is the first question. We would like to try to find out the first owner of 37265. PYL has found a license plate of "7327 X 7". would anyone have any pictures of a T37 with this license on it? or know any information. following is a small excerpt from Mr. Laugier's history research for 37265. (the full history is on a previous page in this post)

1- The first Parisian owner of 37265.

We know the car was delivered to the Bugatti Agency,116 Avenue des Champs-Elysées.
It was described « Magasin Paris ».

The car has been registrated in the department of Seine,around May 1927.

All the prewar Police Records are destroyed in Paris,but we were lucky enough to find the original and first registration number of the car in the Police records of Bordeaux where the car was recorded in October 1927 :The original number was written down.
That May 1927 parisian plate was :7327 X 7.

The only chance to know the first parisian owner of 37265 would be to find a picture of a Type 37 showing « 7327 X 7 » plate,and the name of the owner together.

In addition, I would like to try to find out as much of the "racing" history of 37265. I know quite a lot, but the 2 pictures shown just above show 37265 with racing numbers of #33 and #34, but I do not know much about which races these might have been.

i know it will be difficult, but anyone has additional pictures of these events, or additional information, it would be greatly appreciated. (or any leads of where to go looking)

You are the best network I know of, that may have a chance of finding out some of this information.

thanks!

Well, that's a point. Networks function only if they are maintained and attended. It's always taking and giving.

Contrary to most "real" GP models only very few T35A and a limited number of T37/37A had been employed for serious racing. So the potential for publicly available photos is rather limited. Only a fraction of privately taken photos has made their way into public archives or collections, so if the owner was no person of public interest the chance to find such photo is similar to winning a lottery jackpot. Or even worse.

We are talking about a very short period only, from end May to early October 1927. After that the car went to a 61 year old doctor far away from Paris. Not only a rather unusual target group for such a car, but also nationwide sales had been no usual business in those days (not impossible of course as the history also of this car shows). On the other side, Bayonne - or more precise Biarritz - was a rather famous upper class holiday resort in that era, where rich Parisiennes spent their leisure time. And not few of them lost their fortune in the casino there...

I also will not exclude that the Paris registration was simply that of the "Société de Vente Bugatti" who used the car for demonstration and test drive purposes.

The full name of the Bordeaux Bugatti agent was Léon Pierron who's main business had been trucks. The period in question I believe is between April 1929 and April 1930, meaning during the registration of Léon Parisot. I say "registration" and not "ownership", because both may not be identical. For dealers it was unusual to register cars on their name because they had special trades plates "WW" for multiple use. The fact that Mr. Laugier sees a relation between between Léon Pierron and Anne-Cécile Rose-Itier could mean that at that time #37265 was not owned by Parisot, but by dealer Pierron. It would be very unlikely that a garage is leaning out a customer's car to somebody else for racing purpose....

Neither the name of Rose-Itier nor that of Pierron pops up in any of my motorsport files of that period. At least not in connection with a T37, Mme. Rose-Itier of course raced frequently her 1100 cc Rally-SCAP. However, it must be said that not all races had been documented, in those days there had been numerous hill climbs, most of which had been local events only, with only the more prestigious ones made it to the national or even international media. Although before the war hill climbs had a rather high sporting value (remember, Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union even built special race cars only for hill climbing!), their reputation dropped considerably in the 70's when the European Championship was terminated. So nearly nobody was interested to preserve their history, and today it is very difficult to find suitable documentation.

This task would require "old-fashioned" research, meaning physical checking of some local newspaper archives, by hoping that these still are existing. Once places and dates of potential events are known it may be useful to check whether the organizing clubs are still active, and with some luck they still kept their old files. It also may be worth to put some advertisements in local newspapers looking for people who still have the photo album of grandpa somewhere in a shed.

Are you sure that there is no record of Rose Itier racing Bugatti's ? The name is very familiar to me and I know nothing about SCAP's.

The complete reference for the cyclecar she drove was Rally SCAP. SCAP being the engine provider. See:http://lecyclecaristebelge.forumchti.com/t50-1929-rally-abc-ex-anne-rose-itier-france
Regards, Bugwrench

She was a contempory of Helle Niece and is mentiond a lot in the Meranda Seymor book Bugatti Queen

Sure there is a full racing record of her, but that covers her own cars. The T37A #37365 in 1931/32, and the T51A #51139 she campaigned from 1933 to 1939.
But here we are discussing the possibility of a lent car in 1929.

Michael - thank you for your detail about Mr Pierron. Mr. Laugier also sent me a picture of Baillot d’Estivaux at the wheel of 37265. Do you know who this gentleman was? Here is a picture:



With regard to Anne Cecile Rose Itier, according the PYL, she was lent 37265 by the Bordeaux Bugatti Agent. Here is what Mr. Laugier said in the history:

"We have found one result. She finished 2nd at the « Montrepos Hillclimb »,apparently with a Type 37,on 2nd june 1929."

I have a picture of Anne Itier sitting at the wheel in 37265 on this day, with number 30 on the car, with car registration 4204-K1, which corresponds with the registration of 37265. Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to share this photo, until Mr. Laugier first publishes the picture in his book for Type 51's.

No, to be honest. The family "Baillot d’Estivaux" is originated in the Bordeaux region, possibly our French members can help. However, without a forename it will be difficult.

Here is what i was able to learn at this link:

http://bertrand.auschitzky.free.fr/AppendicesChartrons/L%20Automobile%20Club.htm

The automobile club de Bordeaux in 1923 changed their name to the Automobile club of the Southwest. Baillot d-Estivaux was the president of this club in 1947.