Have YOU seen a "damaged large chassis that has the size of a truck, but looks like a car chassis"
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Prototype Royale Engine |
Following on from dispelling the legend of the Prototype chassis being longer than the production cars, I can also confirm for sure that from the very outset, the Royale had the 125 x 130 mm bore and stroke, 12763 cc engine. initially however, the engine was different from the production unit in lots of ways, for example when the Packard bodied car first hit the streets it had a flat plane crankshaft. This was changed to the 2-4-2 pattern seen on the production cars, in mid 1928, to the body changeover. |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Hi Greg Is the engine currently fitted to the Coupe Napoleon this prototype engine or was a new one fitted during the post-crash rebuild? Thanks Johan |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Hi Johan I Doubt it. 41100 has engine number 3 41111 has engine number 2 41121 has engine number 4 41131 has engine number 5 41141 has engine number 7 41150 has engine number 6 I would say the prototype had engine number 1. Greg |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Thanks Greg. What happened to engine number 1, perhaps the development engine for the rail-car project? Was the prototype's chassis frame replaced during the rebuild? If so does this frame survive? Which is correct : The Weyman Royale was crashed and written off and the chassis number lives on in the Coupe Napoleon ; or ; The Coupe Napoleon is the Weyman car rebuilt? And finally, any chance of you writing the definitive book on the T41? Kind Regards Johan |
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| Author: | Herman [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
In the other thread I understood the crashed Royale was sold to the USA, then back to France, and is supposed to be somewhere, without engine. |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Are there any new developments on the history of this chassis? There is a strange lack of excitement about this find, surely the possiblity of another (7th) Royale should make the earth move a little more? Kind Regards Johan |
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| Author: | Herman [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
You know what they say: Pics or it didn't happen. No pictures, no excitement. |
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| Author: | hortig78rpm [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
quite right hermann, or " the everlasting search for the holy gral"... what a farmer should ever have a use for a damaged chassis of that large size?? a junk-cart for some thousand pigs?? regards mike |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
hortig78rpm wrote: quite right hermann, or " the everlasting search for the holy gral"... what a farmer should ever have a use for a damaged chassis of that large size?? a junk-cart for some thousand pigs?? regards mike I have a suspicion that Greg has seen the damaged chassis but like me is sworn to secrecy.....Perhaps he might simply confirm that he HAS seen an original damaged royale chassis without giving any further details? |
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| Author: | Herman [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Have YOU seen a "damaged large chassis that has the size of a truck, but looks like a car chassis"
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Well? |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Johan Buchner wrote: Well? I have not personally seen the chassis in question,But a friend whose knowledge of genuine Bugatti parts is as good as mine HAS seen said chassis and has made brake parts for it,and stub axles....He says it is real and I believe him.I have been invited to see it.Not being a Royale fanatic I have not yet made the trip.Now had it been a previously unknown T251 chassis.... |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
The air of mystery just adds to the deliciousness of this find ; my favourite fantasy goes something like this : After Ettore crashed the Weyman saloon Jean decided to build his father the most beautiful chaufeur driven Royale he was capable of to help convince Le patron to give up driving (it seems to have worked). Not wanting to take any chances the Coupe Napoleon was built on a new frame and engine number 2, the remains of the Weyman car pushed to the side for the time being until the development of the Railcar project used the first car to wear chassis number 41100's engine (presumably engine 1) as the development motor. The fate of the Weyman saloon coachwork remains a mystery, somehow the chassis frame was repaired and today is awaiting the discovery of and being reunited with the original engine. Probably a little over-romantic ; the Royale gets me that way. Kind Regards Johan |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
Just come back from a visit to the Schlumpf museum to have a very in depth study on the Royales and was amazed to find stamped on the rear left hand engine mount of the Napoleon the number 41141. The engine number list that I posted at the beginning of this thread was info I got from Hugh conway sr which I assumed was correct (maybe it is).The number stamped on the Park Ward engine mount is 41131 as it should be. What I need to do now is see what number is stamped on the kellner cars (41141) engine mount. Anyone know Mr Gozales phone number? |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Prototype Royale Engine |
41141 on the Coupe Napoleon? The Bugatti family of course kept three Royales, 41150 (The Berline de Voyage - Jonathan Wood believe this to be the second Royale built) ; 41141 (The Kellner car) and the Coupe Napoleon (41100). Is it possible the factory initially numbered only the 3 cars sold, leaving the other 3 to receive numbers as and when needed? (a bit like the black Atlantic and works racers in other words) You say the number 41141 is stamped on the left-hand engine mount? Forgive my ignorance, but is this mount part of the engine or the chassis : if the former an engine swap between 41141 and 41100 is possible no? Best of luck in finding an opportunity to study not only the Kellner car but also the Berline de Voyage Greg, there is still much to learn about the minutia of the Type 41 it would seem. On behalf of all us Royale freaks - thank you. Kind Regards Johan Buchner |
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