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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Lazarus wrote:
It is somewhat difficult trying to pass off a replica frame as genuine ,especially when you forget to drill the holes for the rear shockabsorbers ! Genuine frames sometimes have more holes than they started with but seldom less.



Duh. Does that mean the frame you restored was positively missing holes?


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:28 pm 
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onebugatti wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
It is somewhat difficult trying to pass off a replica frame as genuine ,especially when you forget to drill the holes for the rear shockabsorbers ! Genuine frames sometimes have more holes than they started with but seldom less.



Duh. Does that mean the frame you restored was positively missing holes?

yes.even the two holes for the metal brackets to support the supercharger were not there,but of course Geordano had not got around to fitting a supercharger or upper part of the engine. .


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:15 pm 
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yes.even the two holes for the metal brackets to support the supercharger were not there,but of course Geordano had not got around to fitting a supercharger or upper part of the engine. .[/quote]


Ok, I get the entire picture now, and that jives with the time line. I know now when the champagne flowed in Cannes ! As soon as the tail lights to the trailer disappeared at the end of the gravel driveway. Viva la France!

As someone recently said, they make Ray Jones look like a boy scout.

But I heard the inspection was made by DS before the car left the garage...........


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:11 am 
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Who ever suggested that David was actually shown this car? He may very well have been shown an original chassis....


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:57 am 
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These are the final, final files by Kees Jansen. I deleted the older version.

-this version is superseded again, due to some typing errors, but nothing important. Definitive version somewhere below.-

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 Post subject: a real car or not
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:48 am 
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Herman wrote:
These are the final, final files by Kees Jansen. I deleted the older version.


Reading Kees report, it brings up an accepted theory that a suspect original, or even a total replica with a few Mosheims parts qualifies an acceptance by Bugattist putting any built up car into a league of creditability just with the installation of original Mosheim parts. Once a number can be sourced, the process starts to relate the copy car to a degree of acceptance. Regardless if even those original parts are re-stamped and modified to make them counterfeit to a more desirable model ie: a touring axle modified to a GP axle, or a T40 radiator modified to T43, or a T38 chassis into a T43, or even a T44 cambox cut in half to make a T37A box . If this is the gauge to creating Eve from the rib of Adam, there are over 400 ribs to the rib cage. Beyond that Frankenstein formula, we have British Built ''tool room copies'' and poorly faked French built cars knowingly fake run on nicked Carte Gris's and accepted with this paper creditability. Other certain cars are marked totally vodoo, for reasons I still can not understand. Is it the ''trick'' of the trade , the close association with the BOC and the French resistance niche ? This discussion goes on and on, but where are the bounties and genuine formulas - or are there any ? A further discussion from this T43 ordeal is the legal issue of using a stolen part legally and blazingly - without a concern for a police action . Forget civil actions concerning such matter, they no longer work economically. :?


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 Post subject: Shell game
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:55 am 
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Lazarus wrote:
Who ever suggested that David was actually shown this car? He may very well have been shown an original chassis....


It's hearsay, but DS would know. If he was shown that original chassis it could well still be there .....who knows? It's like a boardwalk shell game in Alicante - which cup is the ball under ?


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:10 pm 
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In any case DS was show "the car" in a seperate garage, not in "the stash"

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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:08 pm 
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I just heard, that the #43186 is unsold.

According the 43158 the rumours, that a lot of parts and the chassis are still with Mr. Giordano grew stronger. I'd like to make a contact between him and Michel Dovaz. There has to be an acceptable solution for both Dovaz and Giordano. Could anyone tell me the emailadress of Mr Giordano or perhaps Mr. Giordano can contact me. ard@opdeweegh.eu or through "pm" below.


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Arnoud has made an article on our website about this topic.

http://www.extraordinarycarcollections. ... 72766.html


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:33 am 
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ard wrote:
Arnoud has made an article on our website about this topic.

http://www.extraordinarycarcollections. ... 72766.html

I am somewhat surprised to see that you still insist on calling "43186" a molsheim Bugatti.It is a replica.I built it up using NO identifiable parts from 43158.I am happy with my identification of the chassis as new.The price is extraordinary,I am surprised also that the owner did not accept this price for the car.


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:34 am 
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So in your opinion there are several of the Dovaz-car (43158) used in it? Would there be any way to prove it.


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 Post subject: 2 real T43 chassis ?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:49 am 
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l[/quote]
I am somewhat surprised to see that you still insist on calling "43186" a molsheim Bugatti.It is a replica.[/quote]

I need a time line here...... DS inspected how many chassis in Cannes connected to this story, one or two? And when? On March 15, 1999 he inspected one, why and who ordered that ? There had to be a pending sale for such an inspection. When did DS inspect 43186, as he said the car in Cannes was not 43186. How would he know if he did inspect it!

Once the inspection was done, and the money paid, was the bought property removed on site and lugged to the UK , or deal done and pick up later ? The possibilities of two original T43 chassis were never in the grapevine in 1999. Later, DS crawfishes on his positive ID's of 3/1999 when cornered on the subject ? Is that right? Did I miss something, or was there a flip-flop here when cornered with the rest of the La Resistance over this matter and a possible Fck-up in the professional examination ?


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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:16 am 
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Definitive version by Kees Jansen

-again superseded. See page 5.-

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 Post subject: Re: T43 article in Retroviseur july/aug 2010.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:23 am 
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If hearsay is true, as the car is unsold, it will now be tested for metal composition (frame) as to determine the origins of the frame. I hope this will be done.

About a timeline:

I suggested the same, it is the only way to unravel this story. It would also be nice to see who adds what...

I guess I will make a start:

'43186'
19xx pops up at Corniere in parts (Kees Jansen file)
1973 sold to Giordano (Kees Jansen file)
1999 sold to Hanauer (Kees Jansen file)

Please copy and paste the above, and add what you have.

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