Info:
http://www.coachbuild.com/index.php?opt ... emId=10214
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| How many Royales? http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2296 |
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| Author: | Herman [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | How many Royales? |
OK, we have 6 Royales that we can consider original. But there are rumours about more, based on chassis of various heritage. -Royale Esders, Schlumpf museum. Based on new made chassis by Alstom, who also made the original chassis. (so how much replica is this?) -2nd Royale chassis, which was made by Alstom for Schlumpf. Did they have plans for even another replica, or did they just order 2 chassis, just for having a spare. This was in the reserve collection, where did it go? -Various replicas, Wheatcroft, Hucke, tell me more! -Supposedly original chassis from the crashed prototype, supposedly in NL. Seems very interesting, but obscure. -Chassis in Poland -Chassis in some museum, where it is hanging on the wall. Which museum??? |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
you need to talk with Molsheim and Reichshofen people , they are the only one who can tell you how many are made . |
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| Author: | gerrit [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
Info: http://www.coachbuild.com/index.php?opt ... emId=10214
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
There were 6 chassis numbers for the Royale. The first car crashed in May 1931. This car was ressurected as the Coupe Napoleon with a new chassis frame, but retaining the original chassis number (41100). In terms of chassis frames, there were seven made, the prototype being slightly shorter than the others. The Esders recreation used a frame specially produced in 1965 by Alsthom, who made the original chassis for Bugatti. All of this cars major components were produced at the Bugatti factory from spares or in the case of the wheels, remade for the job. |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
I am just back from Alstom and the de Dietrich company . Where is the documentation for all this storys , how many chassis Bugatti and Schlumpf did order ? |
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| Author: | pehess [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
The first Royale is build 1926. Aslthom is establishid 1928.???? |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
pehess wrote: The first Royale is build 1926. Aslthom is establishid 1928.???? It is not impossible that the Bugatti company made their own prototype chassis.We have the evidence of the first T35 chassis made from Brescia frames with added pieces to reinforce the centre.It would make perfect sense to produce your own prototype chassis and make all your tests with the completed car.The prototype chassis of the royale could very easily have been made inhouse.This would remove the risk of producing several frames which might have had to be altered or scrapped if the design proved poor.Press tools are very expensive [especially for a limited run like the royale] It would make sense to be sure before going ahead with an outside order. |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
Pehess , what is " Aslthom " ? does anyone have any idea how much a press tool for a Royale frame cost ? And how big it is ?To press 6 chassis ! Nice dream . And for Schlumpf , for 2 chassis again a new press tool ? Fantasy ! So where is the documentation for it ? |
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| Author: | Bugwrench [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
Udolahr wrote: Pehess , what is " Aslthom " ? does anyone have any idea how much a press tool for a Royale frame cost ? And how big it is ?To press 6 chassis ! Nice dream . And for Schlumpf , for 2 chassis again a new press tool ? Fantasy ! So where is the documentation for it ? Please stop shouting if you want to be taken serious. Bugwrench |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
shouting in a Forum ? so again , where is any documentation for this chassis , ordered from de Dietrich-Alstom ? |
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| Author: | pehess [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
maybe i must look moore precisely. "Alsthom = Alstom" was located at Belfort. "De Dietrich Ferroviaire" was assumed by Alstom in 1999. i can not bring to my mind Bugatti work with De Dietrich who fired him. But Alstom is arise from SACM (Societe Alsacienne de Constructions Mecaniques) and Elsässische Maschinenbau-Gesellschaft Grafenstaden. Im 1906 - 1907 Bugatti has an office at Niederbourg in Illkirch- Grafenstaden and the major jobs of planing, boring,.... were carried out at the SACM. I can belief SACM can make this chassis. |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
Grafenstaden and De Dietrich was able to make the chassis . De Dietrich sold the Railway car production in Reichshofen in 1994 . Today it is Alstom . Bugattis old workshop still exist and is today part of Alstom . I can not belive that this 2 companys made a tool to press the chassis , much to expensive . A tool like this is ok if you make over 1000 chassis . The story is , Schlumpf went to Alstom to get 2 chassis made , the same company who made the chassis for Bugatti . Nobody makes a press tool for 2 chassis . So this 2 chassis are welded up constructions . Every new made chassis I investigated was a weldet up one . So back to the old question , who made all this chassis ? Where is the documentation for it ? |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
Udo - Why do you think the chassis are just welded up? Sure, the Type 41 frames were not produced from some bespoke press jig, spitting them out at 100 per hour, but no one in their right mind would weld one up from flats. It is just done like in the photo of the type 35/51 frame on the other thread, showing the guys at Pursang doing the same thing (or not, so you claim - I don't quite know what that particular argument was about. Sometimes I get confused...) Come to think of it Udo - what is THIS particular argument about? |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
Udolahr wrote: Grafenstaden and De Dietrich was able to make the chassis . De Dietrich sold the Railway car production in Reichshofen in 1994 . Today it is Alstom . Bugattis old workshop still exist and is today part of Alstom . I can not belive that this 2 companys made a tool to press the chassis , much to expensive . A tool like this is ok if you make over 1000 chassis . The story is , Schlumpf went to Alstom to get 2 chassis made , the same company who made the chassis for Bugatti . Nobody makes a press tool for 2 chassis . So this 2 chassis are welded up constructions . Every new made chassis I investigated was a weldet up one . So back to the old question , who made all this chassis ? Where is the documentation for it ? I looked closely at the schlumpf chassis and could not detect welding.It should be borne in mind that Bugatti did not intend to make 6 Royales.He intended at least a first batch of 25.For a car costing in chassis form alone more than a complete RR this would make tooling a mere formality.Most of the frame could be made on a brake press.The tooling would be needed only for the swan neck over the axle.I am convinced that the chassis that I examined recently which may be the prototype was made this way,with hand work only over the axles. |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? |
so who made the frames ? Where is the documentation for it ? To say Alstom made it , must be wrong , because there was no Alstom in this time . The De Dietrich archive is very good , I can show in the books every part Bugatti did order from 1902 . If nobody can say who made it - and nobody can say how is it made - and nobody went to the De Dietrich archive to look for ! So how can anybody say how many are made ! Everything writen in books for the last 30 years is maybe wrong , because nobody did ask questions about it . |
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