a twelfth body variant
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| How many Royales? (2) http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2313 |
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| Author: | Herman [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How many Royales? (2) |
Another thread on Royales. How many frames (original, less original, not original) are there, and what is built on them. For good order: I am not at all interested in the production methods. I just want to count numbers. 1 (scrapped?) prototype 6 originals 1 Esders (Schlumpf) 1 spare chassis (ex Schlumpf / reserve collection, where is it now?) 1 chassis in Poland (where?) 1 chassis at Harrah / Blackhawk (true?) keep on counting. |
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| Author: | Uwe [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
a twelfth body variant
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
The chassis in the reserve collecton is actually the Type 61 prototype. Now in the US. the gearbox in the Esders recreation is also Type 61 (four speed and geared to top out at 90 kmh). |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Greg Morgan wrote: The chassis in the reserve collecton is actually the Type 61 prototype. Now in the US. the gearbox in the Esders recreation is also Type 61 (four speed and geared to top out at 90 kmh). So the esders car has four speeds,that is interesting.Is this the only gearbox of this type? And Mulins chassis is Type 61 ? I wonder whether he knows? and will he then make a T61 ? or T41 ? Do all the drawings survive for the T61? What engine was considered for this T61? |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
The Type 61 was designed to be some kind of troop carrier. All that was created for it was the gearbox and the reinforcments for a chassis frame. I think the engine was intended to be Royale. |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Greg Morgan wrote: The Type 61 was designed to be some kind of troop carrier. All that was created for it was the gearbox and the reinforcments for a chassis frame. I think the engine was intended to be Royale. We should perhaps not dwell on the subject of an army that needed such a fast troop carrier...Hopefully then Mr Mulins will make a Royale with this frame. |
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| Author: | Herman [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Why not? Mr. Mullin, look at this! 
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| Author: | LANOS [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Greg Morgan wrote: The Type 61 was designed to be some kind of troop carrier. All that was created for it was the gearbox and the reinforcments for a chassis frame. I think the engine was intended to be Royale. According to the book by Hucke and Kruta, the T61 was the project for a "large luxury car with 4 speed gearbox in unit with rear axle, not built". The chassis could have been used for both things, a renewed Royale and a "truck". However, I remember that, according to Anselmi's book, Isotta Fraschini also tried to offer the unsold Tipo 8B chassis for a fast delivery van, without any success. It seems that the idea of using a luxury car chassis to build a truck is not very feasible. |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
The Type 61 was certainly not intended as a large luxury car. The chassis drawing I have seen had the ground clearance more suited to off road terrain. Bugatti was working on a replacement for the royale during and after the war though. I have a copy of a written document where he and his collegues were discussing various options and parts bins to rob for the main components. the brakes were going to be from the 4.7 litre competition car, chassis was to be an extended Type 64, gearbox from the royale, engine from the railcar, or possibly even a 9 litre twin cam eight. What were they thinking! |
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| Author: | copperkettle [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Dear Greg: Nice to speak with you last week. I am a little confused with your last statement, however; if the T61 was to utilize an "extended T64 chassis frame", what makes the so-called Schlumpf Reserve Royale chassis frame a T61 frame? Many thanks, Sandy |
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| Author: | LANOS [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Greg Morgan wrote: The Type 61 was certainly not intended as a large luxury car. The chassis drawing I have seen had the ground clearance more suited to off road terrain. Bugatti was working on a replacement for the royale during and after the war though. I have a copy of a written document where he and his collegues were discussing various options and parts bins to rob for the main components. the brakes were going to be from the 4.7 litre competition car, chassis was to be an extended Type 64, gearbox from the royale, engine from the railcar, or possibly even a 9 litre twin cam eight. What were they thinking! Thanks, Greg, for your great post. That is the best information I have ever read on the postwar replacement for the Royale. Ettore Bugatti announced his plans for the postwar production, including a successor for the T64 (that would be the T78) and a new Royale. There is not much information on the T78; the Bugatti Trust must have some parcial drawings of this car. Probably, there was never a complete design of it. About the postwar successor of the Royale, I have never heard that there was any documentation on it. There is not any type number assigned to this car, either. Maybe it was the T79? The possibility of the 9 litre engine sounds like as a development on the T64 engine, which was designed to be a 4.5 litre engine, just 9 litre half. It could be great that someone owning one of the railcar engines tried to build this project, although it would be nearly impossible if there is not a complete design to do it. About the T61, you have also provided great information on it, since I did not know anything on this type. |
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| Author: | LANOS [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
copperkettle wrote: Dear Greg: Nice to speak with you last week. I am a little confused with your last statement, however; if the T61 was to utilize an "extended T64 chassis frame", what makes the so-called Schlumpf Reserve Royale chassis frame a T61 frame? Many thanks, Sandy If I have understood well, the Schlumpf Reserve Royale chassis would be for the T61, the troop carrier. The extended T64 chassis frame would have been the chassis used by a new postwar luxury car which would have been the successor of the Royale, without any type number assigned (T79?). |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Hi Sandy The war time project involving the extended Type 64 frame has nothing to do with the Type 61 that I wrote about and I doubt if it got to the stage of having a type number assigned to it. It was simply a rambling note from Ettore. The Type 61 from 1932 was not intended as a successor to the Royale in any way. The frame has a completely different design to the Royale frame in the cross members, which resemble those on the 57s. I saw the factory drawing for this during a visit to a friend in France and it is not a drawing held at the Bugatti Trust. I didnt have enough time to study the side members closely enough to see if the dimensions were exactly the same as the Royale, but if they weren't, they were damn close. |
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| Author: | Herman [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) |
Hold on... I understood the Royale chasiss in the reserve collection was made post-1960, ordered by Schlumpf. How come they would have chosen a T61 chassis, instead of T41?? Are there pictures of the Schlumpf Reserve Royale Chassis? |
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| Author: | Lazarus [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:54 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: How many Royales? (2) | ||
Herman wrote: Hold on... I understood the Royale chasiss in the reserve collection was made post-1960, ordered by Schlumpf. How come they would have chosen a T61 chassis, instead of T41?? Are there pictures of the Schlumpf Reserve Royale Chassis? Here is the chassis ex Arlette Schlumpf.The size can be imagined from the chassis sitting on top.A T46 !!
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