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| Bugatti ??? http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2430 |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Sat May 21, 2011 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bugatti ??? |
To be a Bugatti or not to be a Bugatti , this is the question ! slowly it is getting with the Bugatti's ridiculously. All the time , I see cars and parts, of course all original, but after a look at the details it has nothing to do with Bugatti. Argentina and other replicas , replicas with maybe an original steering box .Parts are made in England and Italy and for sure in other places . ALL THIS CARS SCHOULD NOT HAVE THE BUGATTI NAMEPLATE !!!!!! AND NOT THE BUGATTI NAME IN THE PAPERS !!!!! It is turning in to a joke , what kind of cars clame to be original . It is time for some lawyers . Straßburg - EU laws for example . All real Bugatti owners should do something. There are many possibilitys . If I for example have a China Rolex ,the customs people can easely confiscate it . So why nobody complanes about Bugatti ? Esspecialy Argentina Bugattis ? Why Luxemburg is so quetly ? Why Volkswagen is not doing any thing ? It is time to talk with them . It is a Joke at the Molsheim Festival to have 90% replicas . |
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| Author: | jacobug [ Sat May 21, 2011 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
I fully agree with you but I fear I am an exception and that we are fighting a loosing batlle. Would like to hear from you if I am wrong. |
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| Author: | nicefloor [ Sat May 21, 2011 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
Its interesting......in New York where I live, you cannot legally register a kit car or a factory produced replica (like Pur Sang Argentina) as the car it replicates. But, again in NY, if you scratch build a one-of-a-kind replica, such as I am doing now, you can often register the car as the make, year and model is replicates.....I believe it has to do with the fact that it is one if a kind and not mass produced. I too hate people that mis-represent their cars or parts as original - it is cleary theft as soon as someone else pays money for the fake. They paid for a Bugatti and got a ??? It is certainly a problem however the last thing this world needs is more lawyers snooping around !! Same happens with other marques as well. There are more '32 Fords registered in California alone, than were ever produced by Ford. |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Sat May 21, 2011 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
nobody did realy complane at the right places , thats all . Send a letter to Straßburg to the Europa Parlament , there are people for this job . If suddenly all this Original made in Argentina must get regestry as a new made car , the game is over . New made cars have to follow the new car regulation . Now the paper crime in England is a little stopt , the cars get papers made in Belgium . It is a job for the German ADAC and AA and others . Also for the custem people . Nothing wrong if somebody builds at home in his garage a look like Bugatti . But if he claims later to be original , it is a crime . Last week was a newspaper articel in Czech . Somebody did start to build a big number of t35 in Czech . Do we need this - do we want this ? All will be originals at the end . |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Mon May 23, 2011 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
Udolahr wrote: If suddenly all this Original made in Argentina must get regestry as a new made car , the game is over . New made cars have to follow the new car regulation. That's exactly the problem. Registering a PS replica as new car is not possible in practice - emissions, crash tests, seat belts etc. etc. So to put it on the road it has to be declared as period car. Very often with doubtful papers! Of which not few are of South American origin... Once registered officially as 1927/28/28 car all doors are open. And if you don't get it accepted at your registration office, try in the neighbour county, or even add an "r" (country). Even if first owner sells it as replica, who knows what the 2nd will do? The British system was not the badest one, with the BOC granting own "BC" serial numbers which had been accepted by the registration authorities as substitute for "period". |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Mon May 23, 2011 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
Udolahr wrote: Also for the custem people. Yes. The import of new cars is subject to 10 % import duty and full VAT. Bugattis are imported under the "antiques" tariff number, no import duty and reduced VAT rate...! |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Mon May 23, 2011 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
mass production of 35 - 37 - 43 - 51 . Do we realy want this ? I do not realy care that for example New Zealand has over 200 Argentina T35 . But if the Molsheim Festival has 90% Argentina cars , it is a Joke . So , who is in the end responsible for this problem ? |
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| Author: | davids [ Mon May 23, 2011 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
I believe you can add the Brescia to those.. but why are there no real bugattis present at the festival ? or a mere 10% |
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| Author: | Herman [ Mon May 23, 2011 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
And what is replica, and what is original? What part of a car can you replace, without it losing its originality? Change the tyres? Change the oil? Change the brakes? Change the clutch? All 4 above have surely been replaced with about 99% of all original cars, and the substitutes are not 100% the same. I know of a very original Bugatti, with a 14cm Ford Fiesta clutch plate... To name something. Change the gearbox internals, due to wear? What if I push my original car hard, and bend the front axle? Can I replace it with one of the fine examples made today? (the Youtube film posted in another thread comes to mind, built using combined CNC techniques with artisanal craftmanship) What if I break the back axle afterwards? I need to replace it. If I am an enthousiast Bugatti owner, respected all over, no-one seems to care. If I am a Southern France garage owner, what am I then? 1 replica Bugatti and 1 original Bugatti can enter a shed, and come out both as originals? (see the Dovas T43 thread on this forum, the parts of this car were used on another car...) See the register for double chassis numbers (other than works numbers). There are plenty. I have had plenty of mails from owners of cars that discovered through my site that someone else is using their chassis number. And blaming me for it. Don't kill the messenger! Thank me instead for letting you find out, and shout to the other owner. (not a single double chassis number owner ever thanked me...) I wish Johan was back, that could be interesting... |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Mon May 23, 2011 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
you forgot to say , differend driver and owner . It is nothing wrong with replacing parts to keep the car roadworthy . But to build brand new Bugattis , or Bugattis with only some original parts should be banned . If I ask Bugatti owners , why they do not come to the Festival , many times the answer is , I do not need to look at all this Argentina cars ! You can not compare , a original Bugatti with some new parts to keep it running , with a new one made from scratch . To use CNC made parts shows the personality of the owner ! |
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| Author: | ScottieWilliams [ Tue May 24, 2011 1:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
This is a very interesting argument. "But to build brand new Bugattis , or Bugattis with only some original parts should be banned" I would like to mention the T57S Atlantic that was recreated using very few of her original parts due to them being useless after being destroyed by a train. Agreed that she is a lot more original than say a T35 made in Kuala Lumpar or wherever but that doesn't mean that it was built with any less love or passion than the original Surely if you have a dream car and you were just a working man with a family and you couldn't justify spending 80/90/100,000 dollars on a car that will only ever see the weekend but you could get it for say 25,000 surely you wouldn't begrudge the man his dream...Sure it's not original but he's never going to enter it into Pebble Beach is he? Owning a Bugatti is a priviledge that many aspire to but not many reach, denying a man his dream because it offends you is not very civilised. |
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| Author: | Greg Morgan [ Tue May 24, 2011 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
Is it just me, or is this all beginning to get a bit boring? |
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| Author: | J.J.Horst [ Tue May 24, 2011 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
You are right; there must be a couple of dozen threads like this one on this forum. And, let's be honest, for the non-Bugattiste there isn't even a difference between a VW(beetle) based Bugatti and a real one. Problem is that there are more enthusiasts than Bugattis, causing insane prices and a dream that for the non-millionaire can only come true by building or buying a replica. Part of the problem are of course the Bugattis which are in a coma, those that pass an undead life in museums, maybe those should be lent to (or sold) to enthusiasts like us to use them! |
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| Author: | Udolahr [ Tue May 24, 2011 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
If it is boring , why do you read it ? So for you it is OK , to have a mass produktion of new Bugattis in Argentina ? |
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| Author: | Bugwrench [ Tue May 24, 2011 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bugatti ??? |
davids wrote: I believe you can add the Brescia to those.. but why are there no real bugattis present at the festival ? or a mere 10% That is an easy question. As long as the organisation accepts anything on four wheels (I am not even sure whether that is a requirement) with a Bugatti badge on the radiator then you can not motivate the owners of the real thing to participate. It is as easy as that. Same is true for the Pau Historique GP and Angouleme. Bugwrench |
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