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 Post subject: 251 ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:13 am 
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251 ?


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:36 am 
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Udolahr wrote:
251 ?

Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:09 pm 
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-------------------------------


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:57 pm 
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...
Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:28 pm 
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---------------------------------


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Shall we start to talk like adult people?
There had been 2 different T251, one of them with a shorter wheelbase and different suspension. Both had been tested at Reims in order to find the best option for the race. Some sources even talk about a 3rd car, as photos indeed show 3 different versions. However, it may be that this was the prototype which then had been converted to car #2 or #3.


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:25 am 
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to me , they all look different


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:08 am 
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Genau das habe ich auch geschrieben...


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:30 am 
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Michael Müller wrote:
Shall we start to talk like adult people?
There had been 2 different T251, one of them with a shorter wheelbase and different suspension. Both had been tested at Reims in order to find the best option for the race. Some sources even talk about a 3rd car, as photos indeed show 3 different versions. However, it may be that this was the prototype which then had been converted to car #2 or #3.

The stories about the Bugatti mechanics cutting the chassis down in length just before the race are nonsense.It would almost be impossible for several reasons [1] where would they shorten it? if they shorten it between the wheels and the driving section,then they must also shorten the radius rods.If they shorten the driving compartment then they need a shorter driver,and need to shorten the three gearchange rods.[2] the water and oil are running inside the chassis tubes....Cutting the tubes cleanly without leaving swarf in the oil or water and rewelding them would clearly be impossible.You are repeating old stories without any basis in fact.The two cars [there were only two] were both using the same suspension at Rheims.It was only after discovering problems with the handling at high speed that they changed the suspension at molsheim.Roland Bugatti tested the car with the revised suspension within the grounds of the factory,and it never went out again.I have documentary proof of all of these points.The reason why Schlumph displayed the "mule" without bodywork in his museum,is because the body would not fit back on the car with the revised suspension.This would provide the museum with an interesting dilemma,if they ever wanted to restore this car.The factory never made or designed a revised body to fit over the new suspension.


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:41 am 
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Lazarus wrote:
The stories about the Bugatti mechanics cutting the chassis down in length just before the race are nonsense.

I didn't wrote this, I only said that there had been 2 cars of which one had a slightly shorter wheelbase. And both cars had been at Reims simply because there had been different cars with the "28" on them.


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:21 am 
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Michael Müller wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
The stories about the Bugatti mechanics cutting the chassis down in length just before the race are nonsense.

I didn't wrote this, I only said that there had been 2 cars of which one had a slightly shorter wheelbase. And both cars had been at Reims simply because there had been different cars with the "28" on them.

I was not suggesting that you said that Michael.However the story about two different wheelbases came about because someone wrote that one car had been modified in a panic before the race.Quite obviously ridiculous.It may be true however that the better engine WAS swopped from one car to the other before the race.It would have needed a very brave man to drive either car at these high speeds at Rheims.The links to the crossover shockabsorbers were flexing under load leading to frightening weaving at speed.This was a fantastic design,thirty years ahead of its time,but very badly executed.


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Now we talk like adult people? 8)


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Lazarus wrote:
However the story about two different wheelbases came about because someone wrote that one car had been modified in a panic before the race.

What I have in my notes - do not remember the source - is that when the prototype didn't performed as expected they built a 2nd car with a slightly shorter wheelbase and changed suspension. Thus no modification of a existing car but a complete new one. No idea whether this is correct, the T251 is not my "normal business".

Fact is that there had been 2 different cars, both present at Reims, and both with race number 28. Which obviously was the background of Udo's confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:45 pm 
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can you guys show a little technical info about the 251 ?


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 Post subject: Re: 251 ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Michael Müller wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
However the story about two different wheelbases came about because someone wrote that one car had been modified in a panic before the race.

What I have in my notes - do not remember the source - is that when the prototype didn't performed as expected they built a 2nd car with a slightly shorter wheelbase and changed suspension. Thus no modification of a existing car but a complete new one. No idea whether this is correct, the T251 is not my "normal business".

Fact is that there had been 2 different cars, both present at Reims, and both with race number 28. Which obviously was the background of Udo's confusion.

There weretwo cars at Rheims yes.However they had only minor bodywork differences.Otherwise they were the same.Both cars have the same wheelbase,and crucially the same identical suspension.It was the mule or prototype that received the modified suspension [ this was the car with the lower nose on the body ] and only AFTER Rheims.Personally I prefer the early bodywork which looks similar to Donald Campbells Bluebird with the wide air inlet.


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