How many Royals were made?

My friend seems to think there were 11 bodies and 8 chassis. His account goes something like this.

1 - Packard - Found chassis # 41100 and photo's
2 - Fiacre - Thinks there may have been 2, No longer exists
3 - Berline - No longer exists
4 - Berline De Voyage - Found chassis # 41150 and photos
5 - Weimann Coupe - Damaged in accident and no longer exist
6 - Napoleon Coupe - Found chassis # 41100 Packard chassis?
7 - Binder Coupe - Still exists
8 - Park Ward Coupe - Found chassis # 41131 and photos
9 - Esders Coupe - Found chassis # 41111 and photos
10 - English Body Coupe - Think it might be Killner # 41141
11 - Weinberger - Found chassis # 41121


How accurate is this info? Can anyone add info about chassis numbers?
I put his notes in the photo section if you would like to see them. Any info would be helpful

Thanks

Steve

I am always curious about his notes. Why not invite him in?

The most accepted is the following:

-41100 Packard
-41100 Fiacre (rebodied)
-41100 Berline (rebodied)
-41100 Weymann Coupe (rebodied)
-accident, Weymann was damaged badly-
-41100 Coupe Napoleon (same chassis number, but very likely a new chassis)
-41111 Roadster Esders
-41121 Weinberger (very interesting history!)
-41131 Park Ward
-41141 Kellner
-41150 Double Berline de Voyage
-41111 Roadster Esders --> Coupe de Ville (rebodied)

And there are recreations:
-Roadster Esders, Schlumpf Museum
-Coupe Napoleon (0,9 scale, somewhere in UK)
-Sbarro recreation
did I miss some? Let me know.

Photos:

-41100 Packard



-41100 Fiacre (rebodied)
I do not have a photo.


-41100 Berline (rebodied)
I do not have a photo.


-41100 Weymann Coupe (rebodied)



-accident, Weymann was damaged badly-
I do not have a photo


-41100 Coupe Napoleon (same chassis number, but very likely a new chassis)



-41111 Roadster Esders



-41121 Weinberger (very interesting history!)



-41131 Park Ward



-41141 Kellner



-41150 Double Berline de Voyage



-41111 Roadster Esders --> Coupe de Ville (rebodied)




And there are recreations:
-Roadster Esders, Schlumpf Museum



-Coupe Napoleon (0,9 scale, Tom Wheatcroft, somewhere in UK)
No photos...



-Sbarro recreation

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Vive la Marque !!

Oh, and there is a replica in the Sinsheim museum:

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Note: I only realised Herman has allready provided a better answer (with photos!)after I did the copy and paste thing. Thanks Herman!

Thank you Steve

Finally a request I can answer! As to how many Royales - there are 6 chassis numbers and 6 surviving cars. May I suggest you open up the Bugatti Trust homepage, go to photo gallery 11 and I will include the photo numbers in my answer.

1) 41100 : This is the famous Coupe Napoleon, now in the Schlumf Collection. The first Royale was fitted with the Packard body (1 - 27) you mention, because, so I understand, Ettore was in a hurry and did not want to wait for the coachbuilders. Next it was fitted with the first of two fiacre bodies.( 28 ) A rather ungainly two door, it was soon replaced by a 4-door saloon (29 & 30) and then Weyman fitted a supremely elegant 2-door coupe body.(31-42) It was when fitted with this body that Ettore crashed it. (39-39A) The popular rumour is that the accident was caused by Ettore falling asleep behind the wheel; I am of the opinion Le Patron was as drunk as a skunk.

There are still a few things about this car I am not completely sure of. The chassis was completed in 1927, but I do not know the dates when the first 4 bodies was mounted, nor am I sure when the car was crashed. I have also read that this car had an engine capacity of 14 litres, instead of 12 litres like the "production" cars. It would appear that a new (shorter) chassis frame was used during the rebuild following the accident.

The fifth, and final, body on 41100 is the Coupe Napoleon,(43-54) credited to Jean Bugatti. This car stayed with the Bugatti family until purchased by the Schlumf brothers. To recap: 2 chassis frames, 5 bodies but it's totally original!

2) 41111 : Coupe de Ville by Binder, now with Volkswagen. This was the first customer Royale, sold to Armand Esders (a couturier) in 1932. Originally fitted with the most extravagant 2 seater roadster body,(55-66) but not equipped with headlights at the request of Mr Esders.(He also owned a Rolls Royce PII without headlamps) The famed journalist Jenks, called this the ultimate cad's car! A replica of this car was started by the Schlumf brothers, completed by stylist Paul Braque (Spelling?) and owned today by Volkswagen.(One of two)

During the late 1930's 41111 was re-bodied by Binder (68-104) with a similar, though not identical, body as the Coupe Napoleon. I have heard rumours that this car was re-bodied for the King Alphonse of Spain, but this may be an urban legend. Can somebody provide confirmation? After the war this car was obtained by famed Nevada collector, Bill Harrah, and restored to a close approximation of the original appearance. The car may be on its second body, but at least the chassis and running gear are original.

3) 41121 : Sold new to Dr Fuchs in 1932, it was fitted with a most beautiful cabriolet body by Weinberger.(109-124) In 1937 he took the car to Shanghai, then to New York where it ended up in a scrap yard, before being rescued by Charles Chayne. I believe that when Mr Chayne acquired this car its engine block was cracked, but otherwise complete, if scruffy. The restoration that followed resulted in a compromised and non-original disaster, but, lest we forget, it survives. Charles Chayne gifted this car to the Henry Ford Museum in 1959, where it has been ever since. I hope they restore this car soon, it will look much better in black than it does in the current ivory.

4) 41131 : This was the only Royale delivered new to Great Britain. Owned by Capt. Foster and bodied by Park Ward with a rather elegant limousine body.(128-142A) After the war it ended up with American collector Shakespeare, who sold his entire collection of some 30 Bugattis to the Schlumfs and it has remained in their collection ever since.

5) 41141 : This car was retained by the Bugatti family until L'Ebe Bugatti (second daughter) sold it to Briggs Cunningham in the early fifties. Fitted with a two door saloon body by Kellner,(143-156A) this is probably the most original of the Royales. Mr Cunningham never restored this car and hardly ever used it, so that by the time it was sold in 1987 it still wore its original paint and upholstery. I do not know if any of the many owners since has felt the need to restore this car, but I believe it received a sensitive mechanical rebuild in Japan. I do not know who owns this car.

6) 41150 : I really have no idea why this car does not carry ch.no. 41151; not that it matters, this is the second Royale sold to Briggs Cunningham. Unlike 41141, he soon sold it and eventually it became Bill Harrah's second Royale. Fitted with a rather curious Berline De Voyage (158-163) body by Bugatti (Historian Doug Nye described it as looking like an accident between a steam locomotive and two stage-coaches) this became the first Royale to be sold at auction (1986), following the break-up of the Harrah Collection. It too survive.

To sum up: Six Royales, seven chassis frames and eleven bodies.

If I do not start doing some work I will be fired, and I need the money!

Regards
Johan Buchner

We just went over the reply's and found them to be accurate with his thinking. He seems to believe the Coupe Napoleon,(43-54) was the long wheel base.

Now that it is winter time I will try to get over to the Henry Ford and get some new photo's. I only live 30 minutes from Dearborn.

The auctioned car must be the Tom Monahan of Donino's pizza. That was a huge deal around here when he purchased that car.

Thanks for the information!!!

Steve

There are of course 3 serious replicas:
The Tom Wheatcroft "Coupe Napoleon" replica
The Esders Roadster replica by the Schlumpf museum
A T41 with a shortened chassis and currently a T50 Le Mans style body, by Uwe Hucke
There is rumour about more replicas, there have been several AutoRail engines on the market and there will be a few projects out there to use them for replicas .

Apart from that, there are several less original replicas, like the Sbarro Royale, the Coupe Napoleon replica in the Sinsheim museum that is based on a US truck chassis, and a T46 chassis with a down-sized Coupe Napoleon body.

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We need photos....

I think, judging from the photo, that the Sinsheim replica looks very nice.

About 41150:

Surprisingly little is known about the car. Funny thing is that it carries an odd chassis number. would it have been the meaning to count:

41100
41150
41200 etc.

and thus 41150 was the second built car? Could that have been the car with the chassis of the first (wrecked) 41100?
It also carries a different radiator...

About the wheelbase: Some say the Coupe Napoleon is longer. As the 41100 Coupe Napoleon and the 41131 Park Ward are in the same museum (standing some 10 meters apart from each other) it would not be a difficult task to measure their wheel bases. It is very doable, there is a security system, but it only gets activated when you are very near to the car, and even then, it just makes a buzzer go off. (you would expect the museum crew to get running, but they are hardly interested. (been there, done that...)

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Herman do not go near the Royales! The very stability of Europe is at stake! Again! Still!

Besides, the Coupe Napoleon has exactly the same wheelbase as the Park Ward. The way I understand the story it was the first frame used for 41100 which was longer. Look at the photos of the first 4 bodies on the prototype and then compare them to the (post rebuild) Coupe Napoleon. See, the second frame is shorter - same as the wheelbase on the subsequent 5 cars.

And I have three 1/24th scale Royales, to whit; Coupe Napoleon; Berline de Voyage and Weinberger Cabriolet and they all share the same wheelbase. How can you possibly argue with evidence like that?

They Call Me:
Johan the Genius

Is that the Packard bodied Royale I see - in Spain at Circuito Lasarte - San Sebastian ?



from: http://www.kutxateka.com/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/object_id/334085

press diaporama, switch to the 3rd picture for an enlargement

Yes it is, he visited in 1926; if you seach there are also pictures of Ettore to be found on the same site.

and lots of other Bugatti pictures, including a T32 with a sort of front window up.

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"Barttore has left the forum"

Why are you ignoring the "dutch" Packhard bodied car ? Also I again take issue with the sugestion that the Schlumph Esders car is Schlumph museum built.The body is certainly new but the Schlumph brothers ordered the car from the Bugatti factory at molsheim.This to my way of thinking takes it out of the realm of replicas.I would accept that it is a "late delivery " royale.Photos exist and people can still remember the chassis at the factory being assembled.

The reason Jaap ignored the Packard replica completely, is because he wrote the quoted message in 2007...

Being a replica or not, is subject to debate.

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Vive la Marque !!

Go to the company who made the chassis and look in the old books how many they made . That is the only way to proof the number of chassis .

you mean these? I think there is no T32

Is this before or after 1923?

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Vive la Marque !!