Dear Sir

I may not be an admirer of the Bugatti Trust, but I will defend to the death your right to love and admire whom and what you choose. As for my own convictions, the following : All surviving Bugattis are precious. My own particular interest are the few truly original ones, but I do not for a minute suggest that they are inherently worthier than a well-loved bitsa.

I read about a gentleman in Britain who bought the remains of a T44, found an original saloon body (in Belgium, if memory serves correctly) and over a period of time turned this ensemble of, mostly, unconnected components into a fully functioning T44 saloon. The running gear, in particular, needed a lot of work, and with commendable lack of sentimentality, the owner used VW Polo pistons to get the engine to a state of functionality. Painted red and black, this strikes me as a brilliant way to turn a heap of near scrap parts into a complete Bugatti. Is it a Bugatti? Yes. Is it original? No. Does it matter? No, it does not, just ask the owner.

I further believe that replicas are the ideal way to help protect the originals. Take the Cobra, for instance, probably the most replicated vehicle ever - result? Many people can now enjoy the delights of Cobra motoring at a reasonable cost, while the original ones keep rising in value, I believe one of the 427 SC's recently changed hands for a seven figure sum. Same with Bugattis : The Argentinean replicas are not exact copies, so, in my opinion, the chances of one of them being turned into a restored original will prove to be too expensive to be worthwhile. Having said that, the problem of having to incorporate enough old parts to get the car road-registered, is a problem I have no solution for.

As for my own role in the international soap-opera of collector cars; I am audience; I am observer; I am conscience and I am commentator. Now you may very well ask who the hell I think I am. Allow me to tell you : I love Bugatti. I am on a quest of the soul to immerse myself in the history, and the people of the marque. I believe that if one is in the fortunate position to own a Bugatti, you owe it to the next generation to preserve this legacy. But people do not become rich by being decent human beings, to them cars are trophies to rub their success in the faces of the poor. The worst offenders are Ralph Lauren, Arturo Keller, Jerry J Moore, Evert Louman and Oscar Davies, to name but a few of the worst destroyers. I believe I have already stated my frustration at the my inability to protect their cars from the desolate hand of the restorer ; may the name of Paul Russel live on in infamy. Powerless to act I may be, but I will not be silenced. I will shout and scream and moan and complain and hopefully at some stage Bugatti owners will be forced to view them as items of extreme historical significance.

All over the world there are great buildings owned by some very rich people, but they are not allowed to do with them as they see fit. The Duke of Marlborough won't be allowed to fit double glazing to Blenheim Palace, any more than he would be allowed to build apartments in the quad. An owner of a Stradivarius will not be allowed to take a belt-sander to it or to slap some shiny new varnish on it. As a civilisation we have seen to it that the greatest paintings and sculptures are now kept in trust for all by a select group of internationally renowned museums. My personal favourites are the Rijks Museum in The Netherlands and the Vasser Museum in, I think, Sweden. There is something awe inspiring about building an entire museum to preserve a single long-boat. No one is going to fit an engine to this one to improve its performance, I assure you.

The problem with organisations like the Bugatti Trust is that they are not prepared to speak out against the miscreants, in this they have much in common with the VSCC. How well I remember that pestilent little Anthony Mayman's desperate and fraudulent performance improvements to his ERA. Luckily he killed himself, but when that car was taken apart after this joyous event, a modern Qaife differential was found amongst other modern crap. What did the VSCC do? They did nothing. All the victories achieved by Mayman was allowed to stand, every single one of them. Why was he not exposed for the conman and cheat he so obviously was? Because there is not that much difference between Mayman's nefarious soul and theirs, that's why.

Every year more original Bugattis are restored. I cannot do a damn thing to prevent this. But I can comment on it, over and over and over again. It is my sworn ambition to be at the forefront of getting all Bugattis declared as part of France's National Heritage. Alone I will achieve nothing. Together, in time, we will and we must succeed. There is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come.

Allow me to start the avalanche. During the late nineties a Hanni bodied T37 (37379) was discovered and put up for auction. It was painted cream, the interior was a slightly darker colour and its condition was scruffy but complete. This was one of those rare cars just crying out for the most sensitive of refurbishments. What happened? Arturo bloody Keller happened, that's what. Please look at this car in WIKI and see for yourself what this son-of-a-bitch has done. The wheels, and brake drums are chromed to death, it is painted black and the interior has been re-upholstered in ostrich. All that precious history wiped away and what are we doing about it? Nothing. Arturo Keller has never received even the mildest of rebukes from any member of the Bugatti Establishment. Has the Bugatti Trust made a single comment about this revolting and sickening act of vandalism? They have not. Neither has the B.O.C. or any other Bugatti club, for that matter. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Arturo, I can but hope that the sycophant who usually read the comics to you, will inform you of the following : You are the scum of the earth. You are to Bugattis what Herman Goering was to Art. You make me sick. And I will repeat this until such time that you pass every single one of your Bugattis on to a more worthy custodian. Then and only then will I, Johan Buchner, allow you to crawl back into the gutter you oozed from in the first place.

With one paragraph I have just cut through more bullshit than the Bugatti Trust ever have. They are cowards and weaklings and they have achieved the sum total of eff all. For evil to triumph all good men has to do is nothing. Go ahead, convince me that that statement has become obsolete.

Feel free to violently and passionately disagree with me. Only by shining the healing light of public scrutiny on this entire problem, can we hope to remove the cockroaches from the shadows of the Bugatti fringes. For far too long a small group of self appointed curators has allowed the legacy of Ettore Bugatti to fall prey to what has been called "this insidious gradualism."

Time for us few, us precious few to stop the rot. Are you in?

I am
Johan Buchner

Let me try and create a reply, which does have a meaning.

My opinion is that any Bugatti put together is better than a heap of parts, or a scrapheap.

So if restoring a car is neccesary to make it usable again, so be it. Using foreign parts? If the originals are not available, it is the only way to go. However, they are old cars, it is not a crime to show the age of the car.
In addition to that, it is for most cars quite well known how they looked like when delivered. At least for metal finishes, bodies, etc.

I am curious how many restorers of Bugattis, or owners of the car for that matter, do research on how the car has looked in the past. I doubt they are many...

The only thing we can do is present the history of the car to anyone who is interested. This means making available as many information as possible.
The Bugatti Trust plays a key role in that. They have the larger part of the Bugatti archives available. It is a great thing one can visit and study the available material. However, on the Internet side of things they are behind. They are working on the photo albums (in a way I regret) and I hope they will tackle the rest of the archives as well. Tremendous amount of work, and costly to do, however.

As for over-restoring Bugattis, and changing specs and bodies: I regret that. It will be not an easy task to change the way things are. However, I am always open to ideas on that.

For Johan:

After finishing your Royale-assignment, how about doing a technical article? About proper finishes, proper materials, their use, choosing the right body for the right car? And perhaps something about a classification system for determining the originality of the car as well?

The only way to change things is to inform, is it?

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

An article about the Pur Sang recreation says that some Bugatti replicas are "horrible".

The dictionary definition of REPLICA is "an EXACT copy or reproduction".
A replica is therefore indistinguishable from an original. As we all agree, original Bugattis are not horrible.

On another subject, my young lady friend from the Bugatti Liberation Front has started referring to the English Bugatti Owners Club as a bunch of Balding Overweight Capitalists. Not the way to talk about them if they're asking if they can race their unwanted Grand Prix Bugattis ?
Is it our fault we've lost all our hair and have the same BMI as our deceased hero ?

Luckily I am saved from BMI problems. (so far, so good). Balding is something that I am gaining experience in.

Actually I do not understand the fuss about the Pur Sang Replicas. What bothers me is that some people try and sell them as original cars, using or mis-using the 3 out of 5 rule. The only way to prevent that is sharing information. That's what this website is for.

Actually, from a technical point of view I think it is great that a design from the 1920's is produced again. I have a hard time thinking of another object from that time that is still produced, or produced again. However, that is something to discuss in another topic.

Instead of just regular "BOC bashing" let's formulate exactly the problems that some people have with them, so the BOC can react on that, without things getting out of hand.
I do not think that a giant split between Bugatti owners and Bugatti enthousiasts is productive in any way.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Got this one on the mail for this thread.

Place your comments....

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Reply to Johan:

Thank you for your posting.

If I am reading correctly, it boils down to two main points:

1. That cars should be not be over restored or restored without extensive research into their history and once the research has been done, making sure that every part that goes onto the car is as close to the original part in terms of design and finish as it is possible to get.
On the above point, I completely agree and would not have committed thousands of hours of my life on a project in conjunction with The Bugatti Trust, if I did not feel that what we were doing would over time create a database of information being pictorial, written, drawings, electronic files and animation that would ensure that the correct design, finish and historical detail (including manufacturing changes) of every part of a Bugatti Type 35 was recorded for perpetuity.

2. That somehow organizations like The Bugatti Trust are not doing their job properly and in actual fact are a negative force in the Bugatti world. I have never had any contact with the BOC, so cannot make any meaningful comment as to their usefulness or otherwise. The VSCC? I was a member briefly, but declined to renew my membership when lurking in their forum I noticed such comments as the general public being referred to as “the great unwashed” and witnessing banal and childish behaviour on an almost daily basis. No wonder their forum is closed - even for observation - to none members.
So to the Trust and sticking purely to facts and observations I have personally been witness to. I must stress that these are my own views, that I do not work for the Trust and have no authority to act as a mouthpiece for them:
•As previously stated, they are a charitable trust “whose objectives are to preserve and make available for study the works of Ettore Bugatti”. That is their remit pure and simple. It does not cover forcing what would be their own views onto owners that whether we like it or not have purchased an object and can do with it as they please. However, I believe they try and steer owners and particularly over enthusiastic Americans to restore cars with due consideration to the original finish and without getting heavy handed with the chrome or killing too many ostriches during a “restoration”.
If an owner decides to go his own way and ignore a cars history, then the best that can be hoped for is that the work The Bugatti Trust, Herman, Myself, Johan and other people who are into originality do is available at some point in the future so that the car can be returned as close as possible to the original specification. Tragically, whether this happens will be dictated as much by the prevailing fashion of the time as much as any other force.
Therefore, your comment about “The Bugatti Trust (never having) made a single comment about this revolting and sickening act of vandalism” is completely inaccurate as I know from personal experience that this is not the case. You haven’t seen it, because it is unpublished information passed directly to owners and restorers.
•“They (The Bugatti Trust) are cowards and weaklings and they have achieved the sum total of eff all”. Well, that statement is total and utter garbage. I am sorry, but it is and here are the facts that prove why you are wrong:
i) Over a dozen or so years, volunteers from the BT have digitized 25,000 Bugatti engineering drawings, therefore preserving forever the EB’s work. This is the single most important piece of foresight the Trust had, as now people like myself can use the Bugatti DNA they possess to further the study of the marque in ways that even a few years ago would not have been possible. Even someone on a very limited budget can purchase drawings and study them further.
ii) Having seen first hand the work that goes into getting a picture from the archive onto the net, it is not as simple as running a negative through a scanner. They are proud of the work they do in identifying the information that the picture contains and rightly so. The whole process is time consuming.
iii) As a post further down this thread indicates (although in a rude manner), Bugatti owners do tend to be an older person. The Trust recognize this, hence the reason they are keen to encourage my work and also work actively with schools, colleges and Universities to try and bring new blood into the fold.
iv) The building at Prescott is well stocked with cars, Bugatti items and the archives. As previously stated, it is not elitist as anyone can turn up and for no cost spend as long as they like soaking up Bugatti history and leafing through the photo archive. A free source of information that whilst I have been visiting have seen French, German and English people all turn up ad hoc to see and been greeted with courtesy, interest and quite often a lovely up of tea. Any query is met with enthusiasm and a keenness to help.

As you can see, they have done more to preserve information that can be used to ensure originality than any group I can think of.

Finally, regarding replicas and restorations. If they are well researched, correct in every detail and don’t profess to be anything other than what they are. Fine no problem in my mind.

However, when replicas and restorations are executed in a lazy half-cocked manner then I think they are worthless and should be denoted by the letter R for Rubbish. For this, the owners are to blame as through not finding out about the idiosyncrasies of the car they want/have, they are ending up with an item that is not what they thought they were buying/creating.

Kind Regards

SB

Dear Stuart

From the bottom of my heart, thank you. This is exactly what I so desperately hoped for - a passionate response. Your sincere appreciation of the Bugatti Trust and it's work is based on your personal experience, and the result of your close co-operation is going to be an asset to all.

You have made no attempt to hide your disapproval of the manner in which I characterised the Bugatti Trust. I assure you of two things : Firstly, not only do I know how to dish it out, but I do know how to take it. And secondly, what I gave is own heartfelt opinion. You disagreed, and stated so in no uncertain terms. Indeed, so detailed is your argument, that I am prepared to entertain the idea that I may just be wrong. Yes, really.

But, and this is absolutely vital, the Bugatti Trust do not require either my permission or my blessing for their work, anymore than a Bugatti owner requires my permission to do with their property as they see fit. I was unaware of the fact that the Bugatti Trust has spoken out about the more egregious actions of some owners; therefore I wish to withdraw my statement that the Bugatti Trust has achieved eff all, and I apologise unreservedly for my ignorance. To conclude : The Bugatti Trust is the living legacy of the Late and utterly Great Hugh Conway. Thanks to you I am beginning to realise that Richard Day and his team might just be worthy of this great man's memory. I do not question what they do, but I do question the manner in which they are doing it. But thanks to your passion, I may yet come to realise that they have been right all along. I am in your debt.

I shall now address the contributor Hunter : I am afraid I do not trust you very much and I suspect you might be a fantasist. Certainly your private message to me from yesterday, in which you describe your dealings with Conway Snr, and the detrimental effect this has on your present day dealings with the Bugatti Trust, simply does not ring true. As for your friends and their Bugatti Liberation Front; not only have I never heard of this group, but I fail to see how naming an organisation, professing to serve the marque, after a terrorist organisation can be helpful. There is also an uncomfortable militancy about the term "liberation". I suppose a Bugatti can be liberated from the undergrowth, or the bottom of a ravine, perhaps even from a scrap-yard. But liberating a Bugatti from a private collection, even one belonging to a patently unfit lower life-form, is theft and I may be many things, but I do assure you, I am not a thief. I have proven that when I am wrong, I am prepared to face up to it, and if I am insulting a long standing, if rather eccentric, member of the Bugatti community, I promise you I will offer you an unreserved apology. On the other hand, should my suspicions prove to be true, do us all a favour, and go away. Please.

And now for the best bit : Hello Herman.

Bugattibuilder is your creation. I am your guest. As I explained to you in my e-mail of last night, you are most certainly entitled to ban me from your forum, and you would not owe me any explanation. Freedom of speech is a right : Membership of Bugattibuilder is a privilege which may be forfeited. You have requested, or rather, gently suggested, that I tone down my more fiery posts. Point taken, I will try to do as you ask, but I am a passionate man, and my passions do sometimes override common sense and good manners. Oh, so you've noticed.

You also stated that mudslinging between enthusiasts and owners will serve no good. Again, point taken. And you are absolutely right, all we can do is make as much information public as possible. Knowledge is power; and all that. About your suggestion that we introduce some sort of classification to describe a car's condition, I have thought about this for a long time, and have even suggested a simple 6 out of 6 system myself. But I am beginning to think that the answer lies more with full histories of individual cars.

Allow me to illustrate : Herewith then a brief synopsis of T13A 2072.

The factory order is dated 2 May 1924 - this document, together with most original documentation, still survives. Invoiced to the Paris agency 15 May 1924, then fitted with two seater coachwork (still fitted), before being shipped to Barcelona where it was inspected by the Public Works on the 11th of September 24 and registered to Gabriel Ayxela on the 12th of September 1924 with the registration number B-15212. One year later, on the 19th of December 1925 it was with Spanish Bugatti Agent Eusebio Bertrand who, in turn, sold it to Eugenio Belta on the 3rd of March 1926. (Bob King suggest that Senor Bertrand may have taken the car in part exchange - Senor Ayxela being a well known racer, it makes sense that he would have passed it on once the T35 was introduced in 1924)

Eugenio Belta kept the car until the end of the Spanish Civil War and passed it to Luis Verdera on the 5th of June 1939. Senor Verdera kept her, and used her, for 21 years before she was sold to great Bugattiste Miguel Puigdeval on the 21st of May 1960, who kept this highly original car for 45 years before selling to Philippe Hardy in 2005. Shortly thereafter (still 2005) an utterly magnificent woman, by name of Frederica Kirkpatrick, bought 2072 as a birthday present for her husband, Simon! On a purely personal note, for a woman such as this, I would gladly swap teams. Moving on, Bob King describes how Mr & Mrs Kirkpatrick is having her undergo "a very gentle recommissioning." (The car, not the lady)

This remains one of the most original T13's, but somewhere during 2072's 80+ years of continuous use, she acquired a new engine. Somehow this does not detract from the originality of this car. But if we do introduce some sort of classification system, 2072 will have to be described as not being complete or original. The full history of this car can be read in Bob King's Brescia Bugatti.

Apart from this being one of the most beautifully designed books I have ever seen, the manner in which the author approached it is unique and somehow quite fabulous. Bob King wanted to provide a list of all surviving Brescias, but only included those cars whose owners were prepared to provide the information. Apart from the Kirkpatricks, other, highly original car's histories were provided by the Nethercut Collection and David Sewell. (a man whose arrogance is more than a match for my own) But you know what, the vast majority of replica owners took the time and trouble to provide full histories. There has to be a reason why the owners of replicas seem to be much more willing to share their Bugattis with the rest of us, than some who owns the more original cars. Keeping in mind Stuart's reprimand, I could be mistaken.

The Kirkpatricks have taken on the enormous responsibility of preserving 2072's original condition, and I for one am deeply reassured about the choices these two most remarkable people will have to make as time goes on. For all of her more than 80 years this car has enjoyed the protection of a succession of caring, sensitive and enthusiastic owners, and I just know that when the time comes for the Kirkpatricks to move 2072 on to a new custodian, they will, as a matter of principle, ensure that it goes to a good home.

What we have here is both metal and people; it is my humble opinion that we owe it to each other to tell the whole story. I cannot see how a rating system can be used to describe the calibre of individuals. Opinions please.

As to your request that I follow up the Royale article with a more technical work - right idea, wrong person. The one who does commit to describing the original manner of finishes will have to be a much more knowledgeable person than me. That this has to be written is a given, may I suggest either Martijn or Michael Muller. But whoever you choose, I feel, must have much practical experience of the actual machines, not necessarily an owner, but certainly someone who has had the opportunity to "touch the cloth" Perhaps Stuart might wish to weigh in, I am quite curious, now, as to his thoughts on originality. He certainly has a more purist approach to replicas than me, I believe replica ownership does free one of the demands of preserving the irreplaceable.

Now you Good People will have to excuse me, Conway is calling. He states that the T35 could rev up to 6000 rpm. Now where have I heard of a discussion about Bugatti rev-counters?

With the Warmest of Regards
Johan Buchner
Disciple of Ettore

It is quiet over here.

Here is a link to put some oil on the fire.

Anyone a vintage chassis number for his replica Bugatti?

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250214803339

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Hi Herman

Is it my imagination or has the chassis number been buffed off? Does an original chassis plate from a , presumably, lost car have any historical value? And monetary value?

What is the likely application for this item? Is there a legitimate use for it? Is there anyway to keep track of this item, or, let me rather put it another way : How many blank chassis plates are there, and how many of them are original?

Sorry about all the questions, but I have no idea of the possible implications of such a sale. I am worried, but I do not really know why.

Johan

A chassis plaque on it's own represents little value. It is the paperwork that must go with it, to make any car a Bugatti.

However, I can imagine me taking a replica, putting on the chassis plaque, and bringing it to a local official scrutineer. In theory it would be possible to overcome the problems of not having paperwork (it can be lost) and have the car registered officially as a Bugatti.

It is a plaque that already has seen some abuse, being overstamped with another chassis number. (probably when the original car has received another engine, and the chassis number changed accordingly, probably by the Bugatti factory itself.)

_________________
Vive la Marque !!