Conway writes that for the T35 2 different rev counters had been used, one up to 6000, and another up to 7000. However, he does not specify this topic in detail. Does anybody know more?

Any photos available of original T35 Jaeger rev counters?

Anybody able to identify the instrument below? Confirmed is Bugatti max. 1926/27. Had the touring models the same as the T35 GP car, or only a 5000 scale?

All Bugatti rev counters are driven R=1/2 so the one shown in the picture has not likely been fitted to any Bugatti.
7000 rpm is usual for all GP's. 5000 is usual for touring cars.

By knowing the history of this rev counter I can confirm the Bugatti origin without any doubt. And why did Conway in his book "Grand Prix Bugatti" write that 6000 and 7000 counters had been used?

In that case please enlighten me about which Bugatti used this rev counter.
I am eager to learn.

If you would have read my starting posting you would know that this is exactly also my question.

Yes, I agree with that. But you must have understood that I meant to ask what what makes you so certain this rev counter was fitted to a Bugatti?
You mention the 1926-27 period.
I can not think of any model in that period using a R=1/4 drive.

This is a type 35 dash. As is visible, a 7000 rpm rev counter. (not too clear, could not find a better one).

I have been looking for pictures of other Bugatti types, but I did not find anything similar in either 5000 or 6000 rpm. (I did find 8000 rpm, though, but on a Pur Sang type 43)

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Greetings

I do wish someone would answer Michael's original question - I'm dying to know the answer!

Now for the inevitable question(s):
(1)The Jaeger instrument in the photograph - was it designed specifically for Bugatti, or was it fitted to other makes as well?
(2)Did Bugatti fit instruments from other manufacturers?
(3)Did they ever design and build their own instruments?
(4)Why did Ettore Bugatti fit clocks in his racing cars?
(5)What was the instrument fitted to the centre of the Royale steering wheel?

Regards
Johan Buchner

I do wish someone would answer Michael's original question - I'm dying to know the answer!
So do I. I guess Martijn will have to make a picture of every rev counter on his visit to Retromobile.

Now for the inevitable question(s):
(1)The Jaeger instrument in the photograph - was it designed specifically for Bugatti, or was it fitted to other makes as well?

Jaeger instruments found their way into several car makes of that era.

(2)Did Bugatti fit instruments from other manufacturers?

Yes, I have seen Jaeger, but also other makes of instruments.

(3)Did they ever design and build their own instruments?

Not that I am aware of. The instruments usually carried a Bugatti logo, but in fact were OEM equipement.

(4)Why did Ettore Bugatti fit clocks in his racing cars?

To check during a Grand Prix whether it was beer-time already.

Now serious, I guess it has to do with both the price of the cars, and the lap times and duration of Grand Prix, which were considerable.

(5)What was the instrument fitted to the centre of the Royale steering wheel?

A clock. It disappeared once, and is lost since then. Wonder who has it...

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

I have tried to answer the question to the best of my knowledge.
I do not know of any Bugatti model in the period 1926-1927 that would use a
R=1/4 drive rev counter.
I think Micheal should convince us first that the rev counter in the picture is ex Bugatti. He suggests to have proof but he has not yet shared it with us.
ALL rev counters I know in GP Bugattis are of the 7K version.
I do not know why Conway mentioned the existence of the 6K version although it seems reasonable that the T54 used one.

I didn't used the word proof, but the history of the rev counter makes me being convinced to a level allowing the use of the word "confirmed".

The item belongs to the owner of a foundry in Southwest Germany. His father owned a Bugatti in the 20's together with his 2 uncles. His grandfather - the father of the 3 brothers - was a rich factory owner who bought the Bugatti for his sons as a kind of toy. After various accidents the father was fed up and the car was sold. The young men however removed the rev counter as souvenir, and it was kept in the family until today as well as the story behind.

So far the story could be taken as fairy tale, where the Bugatti in fact may have been an Amilcar or a Pluto or another small sports car, but one thing caught my attention - the Bugatti was sold to an engineer in the Murgtal, the name he does not know.

The Murgtal is a small valley running from the town of Baden-Baden into the Black Forest mountains, a lot of small rural villages only with the major place being Gernstal. And Gernstal was the home of one of Germany's best known and successful Bugatti race drivers - Carl Kappler. Who in fact was engineer.

Kappler owned a T35T which he bought in 1926 (#4796), but in 1927 at the Wiesbaden automobile week he appeared with a T35. The period press wrote about "Kappler's new 2 litre Bugatti", and he also started in the 2 litre class. Today it is believed this was a T35C (which indeed he drove later that year). He crashed the car in the race heavily, and the photos I have available clearly show a carburettor engine.

So it may well be that the "boy racer" was sold to Kappler, who lived in the Murg valley, who was engineer, and who owned in 1927 a car where I have absolutely no clue where it comes from.

Although Conway in his book "Grand Prix Bugatti" also wrote a chapter about the T54, this sentence is from the chapter which covers the technical details of the T35/37/39/51 only.
"The revolution counter was a Jaeger 7000rpm or 6000rpm matching the clock".

Hi Michael

Just a quick word of thanks. You always take the trouble to give the whole story. For those of us still on a steep learning curve, your posts are pure gold.

By the way, isn't it amazing how my lack of knowledge never stops me being arrogant and opinionated? Even more amazing, your depth of knowledge never induces in me even the slightest bit of humility!

I'm South African. We can be a most stupid people. Yes, really.

With Gratitude
Johan Buchner

Hmm, not really. Not much engines in the 20's, even not that of sports cars, required a 6000 rpm rev counter. To be honest, none comes up to my mind besides Bugatti (pure factory GP cars which never had been sold to the public excluded).

Of course I'm not sure that the "boy racer" was a T35, it could also have been a T37, T38 or T40. But if the rev counter indeed could belong to a T35 I have found most probably the origin of Kappler's 1927 car.

It would not be the only error in Conway's book.
As I said before I have yet to see an original T35 with a 6K revcounter and I do not believe that any Bugatti in that period used a R=1/4 drive. But I could be wrong of course. Never old enough to stop learning..