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| Bugatti type 35 #4842 (35A or 35TC?) http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=458 |
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| Author: | Herman [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bugatti type 35 #4842 (35A or 35TC?) |
Who knows the history of 4842? 
i have this picture, but forum user "Hunter" comments that this chassis number is also used for a 35TC, which broken down somewhere in the past. -double number? -35A engine installed after breaking down the 35TC engine? |
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| Author: | Herman [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:03 pm ] |
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I got reaction by Email: Judging from the picture in the WIKI, this car never has been a T or TC. No hole in the dashboard for the magneto, no rev counter above the steering wheel. If a GP block has been used, these holes should be there, and the rev counter usually still is present. So very probably no T or TC |
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| Author: | bugatti69 [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
T 4842 is T35A 
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| Author: | Hunter [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It looks better than new ! |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The car on the photos definitively is a T35A. However, that does not mean that #4842 was a T35A, or in other words that the shown car is #4842. For me this question is rather important, because #4842 may have been the most successful German racing Bugatti ever. In May 1927 the brewery owner Emil Bremme from Wuppertal, who before raced already a Brescia and a T35, appeared with a brand new T35B (TC) at the Wiesbaden Automobile Week. Only 2 T35B had been delivered to Omnia so far, #4842 and #4853, both in May 1927. So one of these cars must have been the Bremme Bugatti. Bremme stopped racing in 1928, and in early 1930 he sold the T35B to Ernst-Günther Burggaller from Berlin (registration IA-5555), who raced it in that version rather successful for 2 years. The car then was converted to T51A for the 1932 season, and for 1933 even rebodied as monoplace. Burggaller raced this car in the 1.5 litre class extremely successful until he retired from racing at the end of 1934. The car changed hands then various times and was even raced in the early postwar years. So if #4842 was indeed a T35A, then the Bremme-Burggaller Bugatti was #4853. And I can put this car from my "to do list" into my archive. |
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| Author: | Herman [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Michael Müller wrote: .... Only 2 T35B had been delivered to Omnia so far, #4842 and #4853, both in May 1927. So one of these cars must have been the Bremme Bugatti.
.... So if #4842 was indeed a T35A, then the Bremme-Burggaller Bugatti was #4853. And I can put this car from my "to do list" into my archive. What you say must be reviewed, I guess: First you claim that both 4842 and 4843 are T35B, then later that 4842 could be T35A. The car in the picture is a T35A, but is it 4842? |
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| Author: | bugatti69 [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
the T35B #4878 was also Bugatti of Bremme... Burggaller had a T35C for the Great Price of Monaco in 1930 and 1931 > T51 A monoplace (51134) > Musée National de l'Automobile at Mulhouse |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Please do not stop this thread. I'm afraid I am still confused about both the identity of the car in the photo, and it's original specification. And how different is that to the its specification now? Is this 4842? One further question : To change a T35 to a monoplace does just the body-work need changing? Thanks Johan |
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| Author: | Herman [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:48 pm ] |
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Bodywork changes, and the steering column, together with steering box. As the distributor cannot be in the same place as the steering column, it needs to be moved as well. Quite an operation. I do not know about shift levers being moved. |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:28 pm ] |
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Herman wrote: First you claim that both 4842 and 4853 are T35B, then later that 4842 could be T35A. No, I didn't said this. I only said that the car on the photos is a T35A. Herman wrote: The car in the picture is a T35A, but is it 4842?
This is exactly what I was trying to say. Again: #4842 and #4853 are both listed by Conway - and therefore by the factory files - as T35TC (T35B). If - I repeat: if - the T35A shown on the photos is proven to be #4842, then #4853 was the Bremme car. |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:39 pm ] |
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bugatti69 wrote: the T35B #4878 was also Bugatti of Bremme...
Correct. This was his road car, registration IY-21166. Special coachwork by Karosserie Bachmann. 
This is #4842 or #4853: 
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:57 pm ] |
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bugatti69 wrote: Burggaller had a T35C for the Great Price of Monaco in 1930 and 1931 No. In 1930 he drove his T37A #37350 (r/n 6):  And in 1931 the ex-Bremme T35B (r/n 2):  Car #4 is the T35C (ex-Kappler) of Prince Hermann zu Leiningen bugatti69 wrote: > T51 A monoplace (51134) > Musée National de l'Automobile at Mulhouse
For me it is still very doubtful whether the Burggaller T51A was in fact numbered #51134. Fact is that the car was NOT rebuilt at Molsheim, so renumbering is doubtful. #51134 was delivered new to Willy Escher (CH) in July 1932, Burggaller's first appearance with the 51A engine was already in May 1932 at Wiesbaden. Anybody having a photo of #51134 as displayed at Mulhouse? |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:02 pm ] |
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Herman wrote: As the distributor cannot be in the same place as the steering column, it needs to be moved as well. Quite an operation.
No, don't forget the engine was the DOHC 51A type, with the magneto driven by the left camshaft. 
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| Author: | Bugwrench [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:25 pm ] |
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Anybody having a photo of #51134 as displayed at Mulhouse?[/quote] The identity of a car is not decided by the engine but by the chassis. I understand the car in Mulhouse is 37350 with engine 2 ex 51134. Concerning "4842", the fact that the engine of the car currently has a distributor driven at the end of the cam makes it look like one of the three versions of a 35A engine but it still could be based on any other 35 engine. Is it known on what the identity "4842" is based other than the convenient fact that the real 4842 is lost? This car needs to be inspected properly. |
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| Author: | Herman [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:40 am ] |
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I agree on that. In the books the 4842 is a type 35B. However, the photos show a type 35A or drastic alterations to the car. About the monoplace: Putting in a dohc engine surely makes life easier, with the distributor being not in the middle. Here is a picture of 37228 (with type 44 engine) and steering in the middle. Note the massive steering gear. (very non-bugatti style...) Although not a car relevant for this thread, it shows the alterations nicely. 
More at: http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/thumbnails.php?album=418 |
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