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Type 41 Wheelbase
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Author:  David [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Type 41 Wheelbase
I have a small book called "The Complete Book of Bugatti" by Paul Kestler that the prototype T41 - which I believe was 41100 - had a wheelbase of 4.57 m when introduced in 1926 with the Packard touring body. He says that it was "lost" in the accident while bearing the Weyman body. He then states that 41100 with the coupe de ville body had a wheelbase of 4.3 m.

Does anyone here know whether it is true that the initial build chassis had a longer w/b than the others? I'm not convinced, but thought it worth a mention here.

Thanks for any help.

Dave
Author:  Herman [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, the wheelbase of the prototype (which carried no less than 4 bodies) was larger.

Also the engine capacity was larger.
Author:  Legaleagle [ Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Royale amd type 68 specials.
On the subject of Royales I have a vague memory that someone (Hucke ?) started to build a sporting special with a railcar engine in a type 46/50 chassis (I think).

Can anyone remember this project.

Also, about ten years ago a type 68 (small car) was built with a 57S-style coupe body using, I presume, original mechanical components. What became of that project ?
Author:  David [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Herman wrote:
Yes, the wheelbase of the prototype (which carried no less than 4 bodies) was larger.

Also the engine capacity was larger.


OK - So when was the w/b shortened? Chassis 41100 did indeed have four bodies before the one it has now, but was the first the only one with the longer w/b?

Dave
Author:  J.J.Horst [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, Uwe Hucke did build a T41 replica, with a shortened chassis and a T50 Le Mans type body. The body is not very beautiful, and may be changed in the future.

So, with the Esders replica and the Tom Wheatcroft replica there are now 9 Royales.

Further projects must be under way, as sold AutoRail engines prove. There is no further info on those, though.
Author:  J.J.Horst [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 
The T68 with fastback body was also build by Hucke. It does exist, but I can't show photographs yet (under embargo)
Author:  J.J.Horst [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 
It is accepted more or less that the prototype Royale had a longer wheelbase, as well as a bigger engine, about 14.5 litres.

Also, there are sources that state that for the prototype Royale, one block for the T34 aero engine was used. As known, this T34 U16 engine was developed on a contract for the French government, at a certain stage the development was stopped, rumour has it that at that stage already some blocks had been made.
Looking at the drawings for the T34, it is clear that this engine has double ignition, but at either side of the block. We all know that the production T41 had double ignition, but with both spark plugs on one side of the block.

Thus the question is; Did the prototype Royale have spark plugs on both sides of the engine? Certainly there must be som original pictures on which this may be visible??
Author:  Legaleagle [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Royale capacity and spark plugs.
"Production" Royales were 125x130mm (12.763 litres).

See "Bugatti" by Jonathan Wood (p.254) showing passenger-side view of engine - no spark plug holes.
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi David

As far as I am aware, the prototype, with bigger engine and longer wheelbase, was used until Ettore chrashed it. At the time of the accident it was wearing the Weyman body, the 4th body. The first one being the Packard body, the second and third being a two door Fiacre, and four door Fiacre, respectively.

After the accident it was apparently rebuilt on a new (shorter) frame. I do not know if the original engine was used, but it did keep the original chassis number 41100. The radiator would also seem to have been replaced. Which does pose a bit of a mystery ; what happened to the remains of the original long wheelbase car?

Bugatti was not in the habit of throwing things away, and I have a theory that various bits of the chrashed car was used in the construction 41150. I have nothing to support this, it is simply an opinion.

In the December 2007 edition of Classic & Sports Car, Andrew Frankel compares Tom Wheatcroft's Royale replica with a Bentley 8l. Great article, but it did get me thinking : Is the brocade interiors of both the Schlumpf Royales original, or the choice of the brothers Shlumpf?

On Jaap Horst's The Bugatt Page there is a great answer to a question about the elephant mascots - I discovered that only three Royales were originally fitted with Rembrandt's mascot.

I am delighted to discover someone else as fascinated by the Type 41 as I am.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner
Author:  Williamswinner [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Car 41100 and car 41150
1 : Weyman or Weymann ?
2 : The Bugatti Trust (invariably correct, in my experience) describes the third body on 41100 as a Coupé Berline.
3 : Why would the factory not use salvageable bits from 41100 to rebuild it as opposed to using them to build 41150 ?
4 : Jonathan Wood (very reliable author who was advised by David Sewell) suggests that 41150 might have been built before 41100 was crashed.
5 : The original "Royale" drawings show plugs on either side of the block but this feature was not carried through to the "production" cars.
Author:  Herman [ Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have read that the interior of the Coupe Napoleon is the choice of the Schlumpf Broththers. For the Park Ward I have no info on that.

The Park Ward carried a Flying Lady, instead of an elephant.
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
The third body (Magnum p210 - 2nd photo from the top of the page) shows it to be a four door Fiacre saloon, the term used by Conway is "Berline". In coach building parlance a berline is a 4 door saloon with a division between front and rear seats, but I do not know whether such a division window was fitted to this body

I humbly apologise for spelling Weymann wrong; Williamswinner is indeed correct. I, of course, was not advised by David Sewell.

When 41100 was reconstructed, the chassis frame was replaced, the engine is numbered 2, and the radiator is a different shape. This does pose a few questions : What happened to engine no. 1? What happened to the original chassis? What happened to the original radiator?

Perhaps Williamswinner can ask David Sewell or Jonathan Wood? I am always keen to learn from those who know so much more than me.

Yours
Johan Buchner
Author:  Greg Morgan [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Prototype Royale Engine
With regard to the prototype Royale engine, I found and purchased a photo of said engine on Ebay of all places which I believe to be the only known photo. I sent a copy of it to the Bugatti Trust and if you wish to see it you can find it on their web site under Bugatti Royale Photos.
it shows a number of differences over the production motor but it also shows the plugs to be on the same side.
As for the prototype having a longer wheelbase, this was only the case with the Packard body and the following bodies (Coupe Fiacre, saloon Fiacre and Weyman) all share the production cars wheelbase.
Sorry to ramble on- but in a previous lifetime I was obsessed in all things Royale.
Greg Morgan
Author:  Herman [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Great info, Greg. Never realised the prototype could have been shortened during its life.
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Herman

Contributing to the forum while on honeymoon? Marloes must be thrilled. Anyway, while I have your attention, please contact Greg and explain the mystery of getting a photo onto this forum, I simply must see that photo of the Park Ward Royale getting its wings trimmed.

Thanks
Johan
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