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| MEDDA. http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=663 |
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| Author: | Legaleagle [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | MEDDA. |
The Wiki entry on car 54204 refers to an article by "Medda" . Who he ? What was the article. |
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| Author: | J.J.Horst [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:06 pm ] |
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Just back from holidays (one month without a computer!) The articles by Andrea Medda are in the Bugatti revue, http://www.bugattirevue.com/revuold.htm, with also comment by Sandy Leith. Vol. 4 Issue 3 and Vol. 5 |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:46 pm ] |
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This article contains a lot of mistakes. I mailed with Andrea but after some initial interest from his side I received no reply anymore. If somebody is interested I can post the result of my own research here. |
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| Author: | Scuderia CC [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:35 pm ] |
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Michael Müller wrote: This article contains a lot of mistakes. I mailed with Andrea but after some initial interest from his side I received no reply anymore. If somebody is interested I can post the result of my own research here.
I think many of us are interested... me the first 
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:42 pm ] |
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Michael, no need to even ask, everything you write fascinates me. And I am by no means the only one either, I suspect. Lesser historians than you has charged a great deal of money to provide substantially less than you are prepared to share so freely with the rest of us. You're a remarkably generous man indeed. |
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| Author: | Herman [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:39 pm ] |
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I raise my hand as well. Keep it coming... |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:31 pm ] |
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I just copy-paste my mails to Andrea here. I scaled down the photos. ************* You write about the prototype 53001: "The particularity of this sample model is the internal exhaust collector, in contrast to the external technical solution accepted for the two official cars. It does not follow that it had ever left the factory." The internal exhaust was normal, the external version came only later in the season. I am not sure that 53001 was never used, I also see no reason for that. Monte Carlo (16 April 1932), or better said Divo during the training, indeed is the first public outing of the T53 which is documented. Attached some photos. Clearly internal exhaust. 
Interesting the registration 4309NV1, which indeed was listed for Usines Bugatti, but used already earlier on the T50S #50112 entered at Le Mans 1931 for Chiron/Varzi (see photo attached). So I can not exclude its use on #53001 [or whatever it was] was a fake only used to drive the car to Monaco. 
There are rumours that one or even 2 cars had been used already earlier at the hillclimbs of La Turbie (23 March 1932) and Chateau Thierry (3 April 1932), but up to now I found no confirmation. However, there is a photo of Antoine Pichetto sitting in a T53 with #160 on it (from the Dreyfus biography). I found no race for this number, but 3-digits normally had been used for hillclimbs. So it could well be that this is from La Turbie or Chateau Thierry 1932. 
You write that the Shelsley Walsh hillclimb was in autumn 1932, but that is not correct. The September meeting was for amateurs only, and the Bugatti was raced at Shelsley Walsh on 24 June 1932. Some photos attached, again internal exhaust, registration 8266NV1. For sure this is the same car as at Monte Carlo, because the "14" is still on the radiator. Although the photos have file name "53002" I am not sure about that, also I am not sure about the "53001" at Monaco. But I will only change the filenames in my archive when I know more details. 
That's enough for the moment, because otherwise the mail will be too big with more photos. Next race then was the Klausenrennen with Chiron and Varzi. |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:48 pm ] |
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Continued.... The next appearance after Shelsley Walsh was the Klausenrennen hillclimb in Switzerland on 6 Aug 1932. 2 cars were entered for Chiron and Varzi. Chiron's car had the registration 8264NV-1 ... 
... and that of Varzi 8265NV1. 
Chiron's car still had the internal exhaust, but in my opinion it's a different car than that used at Monaco and Shelsley Walsh, as small details differ. Unfortunately I lack a photo of Varzi's car showing the exhaust side, so I am not sure about that. It is obvious that all 3 registrations had been done at the same time, because they carry continious numbers (8264/65/66). I am convinced that for Monaco they used an old fake registration, either to drive the car on open roads from Molsheim to Monte Carlo, or for previous test runs around Molsheim. But for travelling abroad (GB and CH) it was not wise to do so, so we can be rather sure that these registrations had been legal and fitted to the corresponding serial numbers. And in consequence there had been in fact 3 cars. 2 weeks after Klausen on 21 Aug 1932 there was the ADAC-Bergpreis at the Schauinland near Freiburg, Germany's major hillclimb. Again Chiron (#178) ... 
... and Varzi (#177) participated. 
Both cars now had the external exhaust, but unfortunately the registrations are not identifiable. The new exhaust configuration may have had 2 possible reasons: - better gas flow - reduce the heat in the engine bay, as it is known that the T53 tends to overheating Theoretically 3 options are possible: (1) Both Klausen cars had been converted. (2) Varzi's Klausen car HAD already an external exhaust, and only Chiron's was converted. (3) Chiron's car was converted, and Varzi used the Monaco/Shelsley car which also in the meantime received on external exhaust. After Schauinsland the T53's were not used anymore in the 1932 season. To be continued.... |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:10 am ] |
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Continued... No, it's not true that the season was over after Schauinsland. One T53 was used by Divo at the Mont Ventoux hillclimb on 4 Sept 1932, registration 8265NV1 (the "5" can be clearly identified on the original, but not on the scan), external exhaust (see photos attached). Most probably this was the car Varzi drove at the Schauinsland, but not for sure. 
You wrote: "As far as it is known, 53002, after Jean’s accident, was restored (using probably also the prototype engine that in fact is absent in the prototype) and sheltered in Molsheim. Whoever had tried to purchase this car in previous July, one can suppose that if there was a real purchaser, he later changed his mind and the car remained forgotten together with the prototype in the hangars of the Usine during all 1933 (in contrast to the 53002 which was sold in August of the same year), until Renè Dreyfus, who was Bugatti’s tester then, saw and asked the Patron if he could use it at the next season of the hill climbs of La Turbie in 1934." I believe that the Shelsley Walsh car WAS the prototype, as it was the same car used for practice in Monte Carlo. In general I think that we cannot divide the cars in 1 prototype and 2 race cars, but there had been simply 3 race cars which technically and optically did not really differ. The 5 litre engine could have been used for various other occasions, likely is as example the Grand Prix de l'ACF at Montlhery in 1935, where Bugatti illegally during the night swapped the original 3.3 litre engine of Benoist's T59 against a 5 litre T50 one. What do you know about potential sales of one or more of these cars? Was there really a buyer in July 1932? And if so - who? And what about the sale of 53002 you mentioned, was that in August 1932 or 1933? And who was the buyer? On 29 March 1934 Dreyfus in fact used one T53 for the La Turbie hillclimb (see photos). It is unclear which car it was. But the race number could well be 160 (or 100?), so this may the same car in which Picchetto has been photographed (see my mail yesterday). 
On 7 April 1935 it was the last time that a T53 was entered for a race, the Chateau Thierry Hillclimb, driver Robert Benoist. The registration was 8266NV1. Whether this was the same car as at La Turbie 1934 - I do not know. 
This is all information I have at this moment. It seems that in fact 3 cars had been built and also used in racing. Although the Bugatti community put #53002 to Chiron and #53003 to Varzi I did not find any confirmation for that. It is also unclear which car was used in 1934 and 1935, but considering the registration (66) it is likely that this was in fact #53001, the Monaco and Shelsley car. This would make sense, because #53001 survived, at least part of it. So 53002 and 53002 either had been sold or scrapped. Any additional information is welcome. |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:12 am ] |
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No reaction from Andrea Medda on this. By the way, it may be that after that I corrected potential errors, must check when I have the time. |
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| Author: | Aravis [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:28 am ] |
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For information : 8264 NV1 8265 NV1 8266 NV1 were immatriculated in Bas Rhin for "E.Bugatti Automobiles" in may 1932 Châssis N° are not 53000 series but 54208 to 210. |
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| Author: | Herman [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:18 am ] |
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Invite Medda into the forum. Perhaps he has additional info now. |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:36 am ] |
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In one of my old Motor Sports there is a letter from Jack Lemon Burton stating that he scraped some of the T53's paint off the railing (and kept it) after Jean crashed it. I wonder what happened to this paint sample, it will sure lay the argument to rest as to exactly which shade of blue works cars were painted. Incidentally, several sources claim the Hucke T53 as a replica. But from what I understand a great many of the components are original, can anyone shed some light on this? Interestingly enough, while the use of Hooke joints rather than universal joints were much criticised, everyone who has driven the Hucke car tend to enjoy it very much, and Bill Boddy claims that the acceleration of this car up Shelsley Walsh was the fastest (unofficially timed) ever. Fascinating car, the T53, I am looking forward to the rest of this thread. Johan |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:11 am ] |
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Aravis wrote: Châssis N° are not 53000 series but 54208 to 210.
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| Author: | Aravis [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:23 am ] |
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Michael Müller wrote: Aravis wrote: Châssis N° are not 53000 series but 54208 to 210. Châssis 54208 at 54210 are immatriculated 8264 NV1, 8265 NV1, 8266 NV1 (archives of Bas-Rhin) That does not mean that Type 53 were the châssis 54208 to 210 but 8264 NV1 correspond to châssis 54208 at the prefecture of Strasbourg, 8265 NV1 correspond to châssis 54209 at the prefecture of Strasbourg, 8266 NV1 correspond to châssis 54210 at the prefecture of Strasbourg, |
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