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57S45 or 59/50B ?
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=837		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bugatti69 [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  57S45 or 59/50B ?
57S45 or 59/50B ?

Is this T59/50B?

The 57S45 has a frame 57S with an engine 50B, not a frame 59
Confirmed by Robert Aumaître at Robert Jarraud in " bugatti double arbres"

> 57S45 = 57S/50B

In 1935 on Bugatti publicity:

57S40 of 3,984 L.
57S45 of 4,741 L

In 1937 for the Grand Prix of l' ACF Montlhery:

n° 14: 57S45 of 4.5-liter with 2103-W1
n° 16: 57S45 of 4.5-liter with 1202 W5



Image

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- #14 Grand Prix de l'ACF 1937 :

Engine n°: type 50B 4.5-litre
Year: 1937
Licence plate: 2103-W1 (F)
Owner: Automobiles Ettore Bugatti,

Type 57S45 Grand Prix

----
Jean Bugatti brought this second 57S45 of Molsheim to Montlhéry. Arrived late after a fixing on the road. Both 57S45 did not take part in the race
----



Image

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- #16 Grand Prix de l'ACF Montlhery 1937, essais Jean Pierre Wimille:

Engine n°: type 50B 4.5-litre
Year: 1937
Licence plate: 1202-W5 (F)
Owner: Automobiles Ettore Bugatti,

Type 57S45 Grand Prix
Author:  Uwe [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:19 am ]
Post subject: 
See Bugatti-Trust: Type 59/50B

http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/photogra ... g2_page=13
Author:  bugatti69 [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 
the database on wiki is preferably a classification by frame, not by engine.

It is a choice since the beginning the creation of this database.

The precision of the chassis number can be also specified on the list by type. Not by engine.

To have same information in both cases.

But for the unknown frames, the choice is not easy, and in this case they are specified by type

it is in the card of each Bugatti classified by type or chassis number where the type of engine is specified

Christian (bugatti69)
Author:  GCL-Wales [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Type identification.
If the chassis plate number determines the "type" classification then Geraint Owen won the 2005 "Williams Trophy" in a type 30.

On another topic. Does anyone know whether the Bugatt was supplied with chassis rails with cross members already fitted or were they fitted at the factory?

On a similar topic, did the chassis manufacturer supply one standard side-rail for 35/37/39/51 etc. which was then suitably drilled to take the different brake cable end engine-mounting arrangements ?
Author:  Uwe [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
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Author:  Johan Buchner [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
From Laugier the following :

Laugier has discovered that these 2 cars were built on the T59 and not T57S chassis. (2.60m rather than 2.98m)
This is proven by the assembly record as follows : I include both the English and French, since I do not know what CH stands for.

Chassis:
sideframes/longerons: 59 CH 1 and/et 2
connecting chassis frame/cadre de chassis suivant: 59 CH 410
rear cross bar of engine/traverse arriere du moteur: 59 CH 262
rear cross bar of seat/traverse arriere du siege: 59 CH 159
cross bar in U shape in the rear (special)/traverse en U al l'arriere (speciale)
(The French text utilises many accents, but I do not know how to make my computer do that)

Then Laugier turns to the bodywork record book : Under the number 1088, Type of body : RACE ACF, type of chassis: 59, date of drawing April 27 1937. This document is reproduced in Tome 2, p8

The spec sheet provided by Uwe (Laugier, Tome 1 p160) claims the engine to be of 4.7L capacity, while the 2 racers had 4.5L engines. This document states most definitely that the wheelbase is 2.980 metres, it can therefore be nothing but a T57S chassis. Was this car ever built?

I can find no reference to a chassis number for either of these cars.

Johan Buchner
Author:  J.J.Horst [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Johan

CH stands for chassis, all Molsheim drawings were coded, with 59CH1 being a chassis drawing, 59M1 would be a drawing for a (part of) engine.

The specification sheets that Bugatti produced for the T57S45, and I believe there was one for a T57S40 as well, are no proof that any of these were ever made.

The very fact that this specification sheet was made, indicates that it was intended for customers, more like a high-powered tourer than intended for racing.

It is strange that this first of the "tanks" is indicated as T57S45. Where does this come from?
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