See picture of "37371" recently posted at Prescott.
If it is a frame 37, the engine is a 35B, to see photo engine
The engines of T43 are almost identical to the 35B.
| Bugattibuilder.com forum http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/ |
|
| Car 37371 http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=879 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | Hunter [ Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Car 37371 |
See picture of "37371" recently posted at Prescott. 37371 A “type 37C” which was originally fitted with engine 272 and delivered to Sorel’s London agency with an invoice dated May, 1929. The car is listed in Hugh Conway’s 1962 and 1973-5 Registers and, in the “Grand Prix Bugatti” it was listed in the ownership of Estes in California “with engine 43239” and in the UK BOC update in 2005 as having been imported from the USA by J. Proctor since 2000 but subsequently re-exported back to the USA. The car is also listed in the 1979, 1988 and 2003 American Bugatti Registers. It is still fitted with the eight-cylinder engine with the no. 112 from car 43239. |
|
| Author: | bugatti69 [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
See picture of "37371" recently posted at Prescott. If it is a frame 37, the engine is a 35B, to see photo engine The engines of T43 are almost identical to the 35B.
|
|
| Author: | J.J.Horst [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Isn't it necessary to adapt the T37 chassis to accept a T35 engine? For example the length between engine mounts will differ. Can such a change be seen later (eg. the old location to accept the T37 engine mount?) |
|
| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
J.J.Horst wrote: Isn't it necessary to adapt the T37 chassis to accept a T35 engine? For example the length between engine mounts will differ.
Can such a change be seen later (eg. the old location to accept the T37 engine mount?) Of course you can see it. The rear engine mounts are at the same location. That's the alloy blocks that set the engine position in line (as spacer). On the picture, you can clearly see the two first from holes for the T37 engine. You can also see the brake cable hole on the top of the spring leaves support, at the T37 specification. The chassis are absolutly identical. |
|
| Author: | GCL-Wales [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Chassis frams |
In the eighties the late UK enthusiast Alan Haworth was tidying up his garage and built a "type 37" using a modified type 40 engine and a type 51 frame (frame no. 704). (Car referred to at the time by the Bugatti Club as "1011"). He told me that there is no difference bewteen a 37 and a 51 frame apart from the drillings for the engine mountings and brake cables. The finished car was painted red and appeared on the UK Bugatti scene a few times but after his death in 1988 it was put up for auction and sold for £180,000. I think the purchaser was called Wilson and he dismantled the car, sold-off the four cyclinder engine and installed an eight cylinder. I don't know what became of the car thereafter. |
|
| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cahssis frams |
GCL-Wales wrote: In the eighties the late UK enthusiast Alan Haworth was tidying up his garage and built a "type 37" using a modified type 40 engine and a type 51 frame (frame no. 704). (Car referred to at the time by the Bugatti Club as "1011").
He told me that there is no difference bewteen a 37 and a 51 frame apart from the drillings for the engine mountings and brake cables. The finished car was painted red and appeared on the UK Bugatti scene a few times but after his death in 1988 it was put up for auction and sold for £180,000. I think the purchaser was called Wilson and he dismantled the car, sold-off the four cyclinder engine and installed an eight cylinder. I don't know what became of the car thereafter. Interesting story. Do you have more information on this T51 chassis ? Where was it coming from ? Is a frame numbered over 700 (or close to) is enought to be sure it was really a T51 ? The factory replaced (or provided) frames in the early 30's to rebuild crashed T35. I remember reading the auctioner report on this car..... may be we could clearify some points here. GCL-Wales may be you could tell us more about this chassis. |
|
| Author: | Bugwrench [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bugfan wrote: J.J.Horst wrote: Isn't it necessary to adapt the T37 chassis to accept a T35 engine? For example the length between engine mounts will differ. Can such a change be seen later (eg. the old location to accept the T37 engine mount?) Of course you can see it. The rear engine mounts are at the same location. That's the alloy blocks that set the engine position in line (as spacer). On the picture, you can clearly see the two first from holes for the T37 engine. You can also see the brake cable hole on the top of the spring leaves support, at the T37 specification. The chassis are absolutly identical. It is not as easy as Bugfan suggests. The ONLY difference between an T35 and T43 engine is that the T43 has narrower rear engine mounts. But a T43 engine can not be fitted in a T35 as the GP steering box would be in conflict with the right rear engine leg. A 35C or B has the steering box fitted higher(and further back) and it appears there is just enough room to clear the steering box. A T37A has even more room as the steering box is fitted even higher and further back and the picture clearly shows the T37A steeringbox position in this car. But when fitting a T43 lower crankcase in a GP chassis the rear engine mounts have to be lenghtened by means of specially made spacers to bridge the difference in chassis width. (470 versus 650mm) Common practice, also for fitting a T40 engine in a T37, is to cut the legs and weld-on GP replacements legs. Many T43 and particularly T40 lower crankcases have suffered this treatment. Bugwrench |
|
| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The question from J.J.Horst was about the difference between a T37 and T35, I didn't adress the T43 set up in a GP chassis. |
|
| Author: | Bugwrench [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bugfan wrote: The question from J.J.Horst was about the difference between a T37 and T35, I didn't adress the T43 set up in a GP chassis.
My apologies. I misread Jaap's question and focussed on the problem to fit a T43 engine (or T40 engine) in a GP chassis which few people seem to understand. Bugwrench |
|
| Author: | Herman [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Great info nevertheless. |
|
| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree with Herman, great information. I was always under the impression that the T35B and T43 engines were identical. I also simply assumed that apart from chassis dimensions, the mechanicals were also the same. Now that I know this, do I take it then that my assumption that the T51 and T55 engines and running gear being near identical is similarly wrong? Thanks Johan |
|
| Author: | GCL-Wales [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Chassis frames. |
I'm sorry but I don't know where I got the number for the chassis frame from. As I understand it the BOC Registrar does not have access to a list of chassis frame numbers but other Bugatti researchers do ! A 1928 type 37 with which I am involved at the moment has chassis no. 569 - I don't know how that ties up with 704 for a type 51. |
|
| Author: | Bugwrench [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Johan Buchner wrote: I agree with Herman, great information. I was always under the impression that the T35B and T43 engines were identical. I also simply assumed that apart from chassis dimensions, the mechanicals were also the same. Now that I know this, do I take it then that my assumption that the T51 and T55 engines and running gear being near identical is similarly wrong?
Thanks Johan Running gear is (if I guess right what do you mean by that), not identical between T35 and T43 but also not between T51 and T55. The T55 is based on the T47 GP chassis with non-parallel frame members at location where the engine is fitted, just like the T35/37/51 and unlike all the touring cars including the T43. The T55 engine is identical to the T51 engine and has 650mm wide rear legs. Bugwrench |
|
| Author: | octagonfox [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Also the engines are not exactly the same. The engines of the touring cars (43 and 55) have a lower compression ratio then those of the racing cars (35B and 51). Thus delivering a bit less horsepower as the full racing engines. |
|
| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This is exactly what makes this forum so great ; the willing sharing of knowledge and information about Bugattis. Reading Bugwrench and Jeroen's replies caused me to reread this entire thread again very carefully, then I jumped to a few of the T51 threads, and now I'm sitting with Conway's G.P., Woods and Raffaelli comparing photos and texts, trying for a better understanding, for greater insight. Which reminds me of something Du Gann wrote : Apparently a T38 chassis frame can be turned into a reasonable approximation of a T43 frame by, I think, bending the side frames into a bow shape. Come to think of it, isn't there an ongoing thread about a fabulously beautiful T43, only recently discovered? And I haven't touched Du Gann for the longest time....... Of course, what I should be doing is writing the Royale article. I need a break anyway, and the T35 family is the one area where I am experiencing a deliciously steep learning curve. Gentlemen, once again I'm in your debt. Now you must excuse me, my books are calling. Kind Regards Johan |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC + 1 hour |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|