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| Car 4882 http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=883 |
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| Author: | GCL-Wales [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Car 4882 |
4882 A type 35C with order no. 280, frame no. 277 and engine 85 (which suggests that it was manufactured in the summer of 1926). It was registered as 4131 J4 on 2nd April, 1927 in the name of Ettore Bugatti Automobiles ; in other words a factory car. It was one of five 35Cs registered by the factory in 1927and ran as one of a team of three in the Targa Florio and in the San Sebastian Grand Prix (?). It was refurbished and apparently given a new frame with the no. 684 in early 1929 and, on 5th April, 1929 sold as a new car to François Forest of Domaine Sanit-Joseph, Pernes-les-Fontaines and registered as 3399 ZA. The car was entered for the 1930 Mont Ventoux event but Forest was ill and it was driven by Pierre Rey who won the event. He is pictured in “..Bugatti Hunter” (p.175). On 7th June, 1934 it passed to Rey who then lived at Place Saint-Suffren in Carpentras (close to Avignon in the South of France). He used it in minor hill-climb events in 1935 and, painted a darker blue, at Mount Ventoux in 1936 (no. 35). On The car was entered for the St. Eutrope hill-climb It changed hands again on 31st July, 1958 and was re-registered as 1558 AY 69 by Henri Malatre and was subsequently owned by Richard H. Poe in the USA. Offered for sale in 2004. (See P-Y Laugier’s letter in Summer, 1989 (B.52/2/62) which refers to the fact that the factory notes listed the car in Hong Kong in 1928). The car is pictured on www.bugattibuilder painted blue and carrying its 1929 registration 3399 ZA. It is stated to now be to 35B specification. It is listed as a 1928 car but also as having competed in the 1926 Milan Grand Prix. Other events listed include the Col Bayard (AC des Alpes) on 7th September 1930 (Pierre Rey – 1st) ; the Trophée de Provence in Nimes on 4th June, 1933 (DNF) and the Divonne Grand Prix in 2000. |
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| Author: | S.H.Olmès [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:51 am ] |
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For more info: http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue22/4882.htm |
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| Author: | Herman [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:52 am ] |
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And a picture: <a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/4882.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10107/normal_4882.jpg" alt="#4882"></a> |
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| Author: | bugfan [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:29 pm ] |
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This Grand Prix T35 is probably the most important of the works car, with its history. It is without any doubt the first supercharged T35 (lowest engine number known 85) and did the first entry for a T35C at the Milan GP in 1926, where it could have been the winner driven by Constantini (or Goux). It was one of the 4 works GP at the Targa Florio 1927 (registered under Etore Bugatti just before the race), where a T35C won again (why not 4882). I don't think it did the San sebastian GP in july 1927 (all the works cars are identified by chassis number), there is evidence that the car stayed in Italy after the Targa Florio and was probably lent by the factory to Italian racers. Possibly Nuvolari, before he created his studeria (more must be study). The car went back to the factory at the end of the 1927 racing saison. It is possible that the factory sold the car to Lamy from the little town of Saignon near Avignon (and not Lam of Saïgon) in february 1928 and for unknown reason Lamy didn't take delivery of the car. Maybe he refused the car because it was too obvious that it already had extensive racing use. Lamy took delivery of 4881, 2 weeks later, another 27's Targa GP, but may be in more acceptable condition (engine 151). On the factory delivery records, it is visible that the two cars were exchanged (151 over written on 85). 4882 could have been sent back to the factory to be refurbished (maybe was damaged during a race in 1928, still as a works car or lent by the factory to good promoting drivers). The year 1928 of the car is link to the Marseille Bugatti Agency (Giraud and Hoffmann) who sold 4881 to Lamy and possibly took back 4882; so in 1928 the car could have been raced in the Marseille area (maybe by Chiron who was promoting the Marseille Agency and the Spark Plug Nerka owned by Fred Hoffmann, or other local drivers) and was finally so worn out that it went back to the factory to be refurbished on a new frame. Probably commisioned by the Marseilles Agency, because the car is finally sold to François Forest of Pernes les Fontaines, a little town near Avignon in the Marseille area. On the pictures from 1929, we can see that the car still have the high bonnet latch (from targa 1927), the very first type of bonnet with the compressor hole over the lowers (like the first T39), the little brake drums (big ones were already produced at the end of 1927) and the little T39 blower. No doubt that the car was sold at a discout price; because on the factory notes we can read "60 mille", that means 60,000 Francs. In March 1929 a new T35C was priced at 150,000 Francs. From 1929 to 1949, the car was entered in over 100 local, national and international races driven by Pierre Rey (but also Forest, Caritoux and Challes). Here some of the most important races were 4882 was entered in : GP Avignon 1930 winner, GP Dauphiné 1930 2nd class C, Hillclimb Mont Ventoux 1930 winner, Hillclimb Turbie 1931 3rd 2liters class, 6 hours of Tunis 1931 (DNF), GP Tunis 1931 (DNF), GP Monza 1931 (DNF), GP Nimes 1932 (DNF), GP Thorvilliers 1932 1st in 2 liters class and 4th general, GP de Nice 1932 3rd in 2 liters class, Hillclimb Klausen 1932 4th in 2liters class, GP Antibes 1932 (DNF), GP Nimes 1933 (DNF, raced against Nuvolari, Etancelin, Sommer), GP Albi 1934 5th in 2 liters class, Hillclimb Klausen 1934 1st in 2 liters sport, 3 hours of Marseille 1936 (DNF), and last race at Mont Ventoux Hillclimb in 1947. The 14th of March 1937 (Saint Eutrope Hillclimb) the car was fitted with a 2.3 liter set up (ex T43 crank and cylinder blocks) and bigger blower. Up to today, this car has the original frame (replaced at the factory in 1929), the original rear axle numbered 85 (with single bolt, early type), the original gear box, the original engine lower sump number 85 (the top was replaced in 1937), the original bonnet, radiator, cowl, steering box. Even the tail is original. The big T51 tachometer fitted to the car is visible in a picture taken in 1935. This GP with its works history from 1926 to late 1928 (more can be still discover), with over 100 races and hillclimbs in the 30's (documented), its original components still with the car today and its unquestionnable continious history is one of the top 5 Grand Prix existing in the world. |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:32 am ] |
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Something about bugfan's last sentence keep mulling around in the back of my head; "one of the top 5 Grand Prix existing in the world." Is there a way in which Wiki can be adapted so that when the chassis database for the T35 is opened, the most historically significant survivors can be spotted at a glance? Perhaps the chassis number being in a different colour, or perhaps taking a leaf from Classic & Sports Car's auction reports and just add the letters "h/i" (historically interesting) next to the photo. What I think should be avoided is some sort of strict grading system, with car 4882 to fully understand its significance both CGL-Wales and bugfan's (+ the Review article) has to be read. Only by fully comprehending this car's racing history can the near-miraculous originality be appreciated. Apart from the Williams Monaco winner, I do not know of very many other T35's with such impeccable provenance. Apart from the T35 database, perhaps only the T51 to be treated similarly? Many tourers survive in original condition, so that would just add confusion, and all the T59's has survived, so no need for them either. Maybe in time, the T13 can be included as well? Although that begs the question if there is such a thing as a surviving 8-valve car which does not qualify as "historically interesting." Perhaps start with only the T35/51, and let's see if it serves a purpose. But either way, thanks to both the contributors for this fascinating thread about 4882. I was completely unaware of its impeccable history and condition. Kind Regards Johan Buchner |
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| Author: | Herman [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:46 pm ] |
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One could add a chapter on top of the page, that names all "HI" cars, and the reason for that. For instance: Type 35 chassis number database ---- Historically interesting cars: [4882] First supercharged Bugatti, survives almost 100% original, known history [4914] bla bla etc. ---- Then all chassis numbers chronologically |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:59 pm ] |
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Sounds like a very good idea. How much work will it be? Who will volunteer to do it? We must also remember that all Bugattis are in some way or other, "historically interesting". |
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| Author: | Herman [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:02 pm ] |
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Johan Buchner wrote: Sounds like a very good idea. How much work will it be? Who will volunteer to do it?
We must also remember that all Bugattis are in some way or other, "historically interesting". I do not have the time at the moment. Perhaps some people can award cars the term "HI" and Bugatti69 can pull them up. |
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| Author: | bugfan [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:01 pm ] |
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Yes good idea. But I would like to see different opinion or remarks on what I wrote on 4882, there are special points and personal thoughts I did. Don't tell me you all agree on everything. You can't be only just readers. If that's the case all the owners of Grand Prix will come to this forum and make up a nice racing history, a works connection to their GP, or justify a wrong frame number, a replaced engine, missing rear axle and questionable delivery date, and then get a "HI" on Wiki. By example, everybody has the delivery notes from the factory, and you don't need me to prove what I wrote about 4882 factory records (different than in Conway GP book)........... |
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