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 Post subject: Car body I designed went into manufacture today.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Not Bugatti, but Hermann says I can post it...and he is the boss!

Just finished designing the bodywork for a racer that will be competing in an Aston Martin racing programme. Bodywork construction started today.

Pictures and links to pictures below and I would like to thank Andy Mitchell of Mitchell Motors in Wiltshire for allowing me to post the pictures on the forum. He will be competing later this year. Start to finish of the project was 3 months. The pictures show what the bodywork will look like and the former created to make the bodywork in virtual and real life.

Estimated time saving will be 35% for Andy. Accuracy massively improved. If car is crashed, he has the ability to recreate the bodywork exactly as it was before.

"Virtual" finished buck.
Image

Finished buck in real life.
Image

"Virtual" bodywork as it will look when car created in the flesh...colour to be decided.
Image

Real buck/former - close up rear view.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii19 ... pulate.jpg

"Virtual" tubular chassis.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii19 ... S1copy.jpg

"Virtual" bodywork with tubular chassis added.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii19 ... ropped.jpg

"Virtual" rear view of bodywork.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii19 ... ropped.jpg

Real buck - corner close up.
Image

Virtual corner close up....very close I reckon...as you would expect.
Image

Real hoop former.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii19 ... ar/b11.jpg

Real view over front of buck
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii19 ... ar/b13.jpg


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:42 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:45 pm 
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Now I am confused!

SB


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:55 pm 
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A little fun must be :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:48 pm 
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Great body, what engine are you using?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:45 am 
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A real work of art. Thanks for showing it to us.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Although not Bugatti related -- definitely 100% cool in my book!

I never thought of routing #'s into the buck sections before. Much easier than what I have done in the past. I'll do for my own upcoming project when I get the forms CNC routered.

Definitely like the solid modeling aspect of this project as well. Although it requires more work upfront, it usually builds a better project at the end. (and allows for replication or changes in the future)

Keep posting pics if/when available!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Oh, yes, the numbers are invaluable. Also nicely and correctly done is the detail where the wood meets other wood.

Another system is to work with ears on the wood, stick the ears through rectangular holes in another frame, then fasten them using wedges.

I will see if I can pop up some pictures.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Few more pictures for you.

The scene at the workshop tonight. Front wings coming on well.

Image

Image

Forgot to say, designed buck so that it splits in two saving workshop space.

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:19 pm 
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Stuart these photos are great, it's almost as if your design is being born, not merely being manufactured. For the benefit of those of us with no mechanical skills whatsoever perhaps you can do a write-up about how this is being done. Just to give you an indication of the kind of detail you will have to provide for me to understand, I have heard of a thing called the English Wheel, but I have no idea how it works. Well I know you sort of push a sheet of metal between two roller type thingies and Voila, you get a circa 1937 Auto Union Avus streamliner, but perhaps it's not quite that simple?

Almost a pity that this beautiful craftsmanship will eventually be covered by layers of paint.

Respect.
Johan


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:27 pm 
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The guy creating the car is brilliant at bodywork. However he sees his real skill as paintwork.

Everything he does to the car, is towards his ultimate goal of getting the paint applied exactly how he wants it. His paintjobs regularly win concours competitions.

Re English wheel, he was using that today. If you gave me one of those to use each day till next Xmas, what I created could only be recognised as being unrecognisable. Fantastic skill. However, I had to program his iPhone, as he could not do it, so each to their own I guess!

Car proceeding with no problems. Little details I created like holes for headlight centres now directly relating to much saved time and perfect symmetry. Next time you go to a classic car show check the symmetry of the cars out...you may be a bit shocked.

SB


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:50 am 
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Whitney Paine wrote:
Next time you go to a classic car show check the symmetry of the cars out...you may be a bit shocked.


(thread drift)
There is no "symmetry" especially in the 50's and early 60's era Ferrari racecars and other "Italian coachbuilt" vehicles. I know of one 250 Testarossa where the doors are 2.25in offset from one another. I can tell you nightmare stories of headlight/taillight openings that are so asymetrical that you end up throwing the tape measure away as it isn't relevant. I know of a trunklid that is 14deg sideways -- that was the way it was built. Nobody notices most of it though. The thing to remember is that most of this stuff was just bashed out as quickly as possible when new as it inevitably would be wrecked and fixed again.

I've seen one vintage Ferrari racecar that the coachwork was CMM'd and then the whole thing was "corrected" to remove left/right asymetry problems and new coachwork created. Car looked horrible when finished -- even in metal. It looked almost "plastic" or unnatural in appearance. Thus there is something to be said about the coachwork being built naturally and by the artisan/craftsmans hands and leaving it at that.

My own upcoming project? Symetrical by design -- but I will then go "work it" by hand and toss the measuring tape away for the last 20% of finish work and a few additions ala louvers/scoops (eyeball engineered). Usually the best compromise between both worlds.
(end thead drift)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:22 am 
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I hear what your saying.

Getting the right balance between computer perfection and human error, coupled with your valid point about why spend time on something that is going to be armco kissing next week makes sense.

For this project the vehicle is being built by hand with the "data" - being the buck - created by computer and then CNC methods.

The client wants the car to be as perfect as possible, but containing the handbuilt variations - not fair to call them errors - that will invitably occur when building a body by hand. He will also be making changes here and there if he feels it will make the car look better. The buck is a very accurate guide.

Re the racer you mention looking horrible with the errors removed. Tricky one this, especially as I do not know the car. However using a Bugatti analogy being the Type 35 body. On the face of it a really simple shape, but in reality the debates between members as to what car has the correct tail are legion.

There are plans for the tail - well profiles and old wives tales really - but it is true to say that some look much better than others. Lord Raglan's car came up as looking particularly "well". Perhaps Bugwrench could expand on this point.

Back to the Ferrari, I can imagine the car being scanned - for example - and the data being given to a computer geek with a row of pens in his top pocket to be "corrected". He diligantly does this and can prove mathematically, that his model bears the "best" resemblance to the data he was originally given. I can then imagine someone looking at the shape created, thinking it looks rubbish but being too worried about originality to change the shape subtly - and I bet only subtly was required.

The second mistake was the coachbuilder not using his eye to tweak the shape to make it better.

I bet the car was a money no object rebuild, built with passion missing and the owner shouting "buy" and "sell" on a trading floor as he is on the phone discussing the detail of the resto. Just a guess though.

To conclude, I love symmetry and perfection but if the client wants the car to be assymetric or contain "errors" that make it look more natural to the period, then no problem.

Again relating to Bugatti, I remember being at the Trust and we were discussing the design I had recreated in 3D for the Type 35 gearbox cover. They happened to have one and it was bought over for examination. Well, it bore only a passing resemblance to what I had created with a very rough and ready appearance and only the faces necessary to be machined, machined.

However, I put my mind to solving this problem and there are in fact loads of methods some obvious and some not so obvious to making an item look "original". Sadly, every time I think of them, forgers faking Peninsula War letters by judicious use of tea and cooking them at gas mark 6 or whatever for a few hours comes to mind. Fine dividing line between being a smartarse and deception. Depends on the context and presentation.

Sorry for long post, but the previous thread deserved a decent -I hope - answer!

Stuart


Last edited by Whitney Paine on Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:48 am 
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Forgot re Ferrari:

If I was the person tasked with restoring the car, deciding to divert away from a data set that you know to be correct purely for aesthetic reasons would be a brave decision.

Every car resto provokes opinions and if it all got litigious, throwing X million data points created by a the scanner and a letter from the client authorising "error" removal at the client's lawyer would be a much safer route than defending your deviation on the basis of personal preference brought on by experience.

Just a thought.


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 Post subject: peninsula war letters
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:04 pm 
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You have been watching too much "Lovejoy" lol lol lol


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