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 Post subject: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:57 am 
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Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
The forum is a little quiet. Why?

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:07 am 
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Because you are quiet. :lol:

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Vive la Marque !!


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:25 am 
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ImageJohan
Then I make the beginning. Does someone have information from this car :?:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:30 am 
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Here the next question: could that be really the original color of type the 57C :?:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:06 am 
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Location: Vienne France
Uwe wrote:
ImageJohan
Then I make the beginning. Does someone have information from this car :?:
Image

I know nothing about this car but we can make a few guess's....two cowls on scuttle,one fuel filler,possibly with a rare fuel gauge in the cap,the wrong type of wire wheels with T35/7 spinners.small drum brakes,probably a T35.[the brake cable hole is further back than T37 ] different bonnet to cover different motor? The original gearlever is still fitted so if it is a different motor they seem to have kept the gearbox.Could this have a Hudson straight eight motor? The radiator seems further foward than normal. what is most interesting is the context.We are obviously dealing with the Americans :lol: :lol: :lol: The aircraft are large radial engined fighter planes.I cannot lay my hands on my book of American warplanes of WW2 but they could be P47 Thunderbolts,although I do not remember the vent at two o'clock on the cowl of the plane on the right.They are not "D" series i feel.The surround to hold the gearlever rubber gaiter has been put on the outside, [ wrongly as so often happens ] I would hazard a guess at 1948/9, amateur racing on an old airforce base.The "equipe!"do not have the air of serving air crew. I cannot read the name of the driver,nor understand the badge on the side. The bonnet seems not to have louvres but just a large hole in the side,and does not fit tight to lower panel.The body joining pieces between tail and scuttle have wrongly been fitted with two bolts each.The floorpan seems not to have louvres [where "special"is painted].And that is all I can see !


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:08 am 
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Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Hi Uwe

I know nothing of the first photo, but I can comment on the second. As a general rule the older the colour photograph, the less reliable the colours are. Look at the white railings, then the grass and then the tyre-wall. The white has a blue tint to it, the grass looks faded and the tyres a little too dark. Also the shading on the Bugatti itself seem exaggerated, very dark in the shade, nearly white on top.

But I will say this, it sure does look like a darker blue than the very pale blue supposedly used by Bugatti. Do you have the original photo or is it from a book? That can also affect the colour reproduction.

But a wonderful photo all the same, thanks for sharing.

Johan

PS. Great post Lazarus, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:26 am 
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Thanks at Lazarus - great post :!: Image


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:40 am 
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Johan Buchner wrote:
Do you have the original photo or is it from a book? That can also affect the colour reproduction.


The snapshot is of these DVD - the film cutout takes approx. 15 seconds.
The quality of the snapshot is unchanged...
Image


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Uwe wrote:
Thanks at Lazarus - great post :!: Image

In those days the warplanes may have been cheaper than the Bug !


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Hello Uwe, Johan, and Lazarus,

the odd race car is William Milliken´s 35A. It was modified with a heavy-duty Harrison radiator for a very special mission... Milliken took his car to Pikes Peak in 1947, a rather severe hill-climb reaching high altitudes. Milliken finished a respectable 6th overall (and fondly remembers the strong 50/50 coffee-whiskey presented at the finish line!). He quotes the chassis number as 4906 but I didn´t check this information any further. Milliken wrote an important textbook on "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" and an autobiography, "Equations of Motion" which I thought is a most rewarding read.

Off-topic now: Johan, your post to Claire was such good fun. Keep up the good work.

Regards,

sleevevalve


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:21 pm 
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sleevevalve wrote:
Hello Uwe, Johan, and Lazarus,

the odd race car is William Milliken´s 35A. It was modified with a heavy-duty Harrison radiator for a very special mission... Milliken took his car to Pikes Peak in 1947, a rather severe hill-climb reaching high altitudes. Milliken finished a respectable 6th overall (and fondly remembers the strong 50/50 coffee-whiskey presented at the finish line!). He quotes the chassis number as 4906 but I didn´t check this information any further. Milliken wrote an important textbook on "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" and an autobiography, "Equations of Motion" which I thought is a most rewarding read.

Off-topic now: Johan, your post to Claire was such good fun. Keep up the good work.

Regards,

sleevevalve

Damm,damm,damm :lol: :lol: I thought Milliken,It is just not readable on the print.So where was the photo taken?Are there airplanes at Pikes Peak? I am pleased that I was not so far out on the date. :P :lol: 8)


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:17 pm
Posts: 348
MILLIKEN, Dr. William (Bill).

An aeronautical and automotive engineer who was a leading figure in the study of automobile road-holding in the USA.. He was born in Old Town, Maine in 1911 and designed, built, flew and crashed his own plane by the time he was eighteen. He graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1934 and served as the head test pilot at Boeings during WW2. In 1944 he was appointed managing directior of the Cornell Aeronautical Laboratory and established its Transport Research Division. His studies were practical and theoretical and he purchased an MG TB shortly after WW2 but swapped it for a type 35A (4906). He was the member no. 6 of the SCCA which was founded in 1946. He competed in around 115 of the club’s races and became a senior members of its administration. He was heavily involved in the establishments of Watkins Glen but rolled the 35A into the straw bales there and thus gave his name to “Milliken’s Corner”. He competed more successfully at Pike’s Peak Hill Climb where he finished sixth despite having the oldest and smallest car competing. He later drove a type 51 belonging to Dr. Scher and a modified type 54 which was used for road-holding and research at the Cornell Research Laboratory. However, he also rolled this car at Watkins Glen, again without serious injury. He is still involved with the research firm established by his son from his second marriage.

I WONDER IF THE NEW BODYWORK WAS INSTALLED AFTER HE HAD ROLLED THE CAR ?


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:56 pm 
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Bill Milliken stored his T35A in an Air Force base hangar in Buffalo. Most likely the photo was taken there. He recruited aircraft mechanics to work on the car. Later he fitted a Buick torque converter to a T54 ! A superb engineer it seems, and his recollections are written in a modest and no-frills style. The T54 survives, too, but I do not know the chassis number.


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:17 pm
Posts: 348
54210
A car probably manufactured in 1932 and fitted with engine no. 7. In 1932 the car was driven by Divo at the Avus, at Monza and Rheims by Varzi the car retiring on each occasion. In 1933 Varzi however scored a win at the Avus. Post-war, the car “surfaced” in the Paris “stores” and was purchased by an American plastic surgeon called Dr. Samuel Scher of 1000 Park Avenue, New York. The car was raced on occasions by Bill Milliken. In November, 1953 the car was the subject of an article in “Bugantics” (B.16/4). It later passed to B.F. Johynson, RR.3, Connersville, Indiana, USA. In 1962 it was listed still in his ownership. The car was mentioned in 1983 in “Bugatti Grand Prix” p. 139 ;“.. noted without detail but must have been lying around at the works as they are now in the USA.” In 1989, the car was lsted in Hugh Conway’s “Magnum” with no engine number or present location listed with the note “(?built)”. However, in the same year it was offered for sale by the Old Philadelphia Motor Co.,USA. In March, 1989, a large photograph of the car was published in “Classic and Sportscar”. It had come into the ownership of Ray Jones and appeared in several advertisements during the nineties. It was listed in 2004 in Conway’s reprinted “Grand Prix Bugatti” (p. 265) as still in USA. In May 2008 the car appeared at the “La Vie en Bleu” meeting and it was advertised for sale by Ivan Dutton Ltd in the July 2008 edition of Motor Sport with an asking price of 2.2 million euros. According to “Bugantics” in Autumn, 2008 the car was acquired by Hubert Fabri who allowed Tim Dutton to drive the car at the VSCC meeting at Prescott in August, 2008. It is currently painted blue with red upholstery and carries the competion no. 18 on its radiator. Towards the end of 2008 ownership passed to Dr. Wiesman in Hostatt, Germany.


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 Post subject: Re: An observation.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:04 am 
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Location: Vienne France
sleevevalve wrote:
Bill Milliken stored his T35A in an Air Force base hangar in Buffalo. Most likely the photo was taken there. He recruited aircraft mechanics to work on the car. Later he fitted a Buick torque converter to a T54 ! A superb engineer it seems, and his recollections are written in a modest and no-frills style. The T54 survives, too, but I do not know the chassis number.

Thank you for that.That answers most of the remaining questions about the photo.Curtiss-Wright built P36 Hawks and P40 Warhawks in the Buffalo/Tonawanda plant so the liklihood is that they are local airplanes.


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