The Kelsey Replica: Work in progress

William Kelsey · **Joined:** Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:01 pm **Posts:** 66

Anybody know where I can get detailed drawings of the frame for a T-35B?

Herman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:38 pm

There are some drawings in books. I can scan them for you if you wish. However, they are quite basic.

I guess Rivaaquarama will react on this as well. He might have something as well.

I will at least put some scanned (high resolution) drawings up this night.

Herman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:32 pm

And have you seen the technical drawing department on the photo server?

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/thumbnails.php?album=396

Herman · **Posted:** Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:40 am

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=0&pos=-2927

The chassis drawing is still on my todo list.

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:12 am

William Kelsey is now building his type 35 replica, using whatever he can find that is suitable.

In this album you will find photos of the work he is doing:

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/thumbnails.php?album=805

I will also post parts of our E-mail conversation, as I think it is interesting for many people.

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:15 am

It all began with this e-mail, which explains the scope of the build:

Quote:

My efforts are being directed at building from scratch a T-35B replica. I am not capable of building the engine or gearbox but I am trying to make sure it has the basic character as the Buggati powerplant. I bought a Toyota 1g-gze engine which is a two liter supercharged inline six cylinder producing about 150hp. The gearbox is being turned 90 degrees to the right and linkage made to allow it to be shifted as the original. I am making patterns to make the wheels as original. I am not an experienced panel beater so I am building the body from carbon fiber which I have much experience with. I am also using hydraulic brakes but the drums will be as the Bugatti cast into the wheels. My goal is to be able to drive it and enjoy it rather than just show it.

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:19 am

Quote:

Also, my project is slowly progressing. Patterns for the differential housing are done as is the "bellhousing". It is not a real bellhousing as we have come to know them because it is almost flat and very short. The transmission will be one of the more difficult components to build. There simply isn't any transmission I know of that will make a suitable replacement for the original Bugatti unit. I am thinking of finding a suitable set of gears from a transmission with a close ratio and four forward speeds and making a cast housing similar to the original. I don't think I will be able to find straight cut gears anymore as they havn't been used in commercially available cars for close to fifty years.
William Kelsey

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:21 am

Quote:

I have been pouring over photographs and drawings in an attempt to determine how the front springs were terminated. Having no luck. I believe there are two rollers in the aluminum casting with one - probably the top one - having a flange to locate the spring laterally and the bottom roller only keeping the spring up in the flange of the top one so as not to flop around. I think I will build it that way. Probably be best to put a couple of drawn cup needle bearings inside the top roller to keep it smooth and the shaft not to were out.

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:22 am

For the past two weeks, I have been building the clutch assembly. I have absolutely no idea what this should be like. The one and only thing I have to go on is a sketch in a booklet entitled "Ballentine's Illustrated History of the Car Marque" book number one. I scaled it as best I could and determined the clutch plates should be about 17cm in diameter. That's all I really can learn.

I began with a trip to a local company that rebuilds truck transmissions. I met a man who rebuilds ZF automatic transmissions used in busses. He gave me a handful of clutch plates and clutch disks. 17.5cm outside diameter. From there on all calculations ended up as little more than guess work. How many plates and disks to use? How many springs to use and what rate? I decided on using four plates and three disks. I drilled the guides for 15 springs and I can add or subtract springs as necessary.

Very time consuming to make assembly. 32 splines in shaft - all cut on milling machine one at a time. Outside splines for clutch discs took eleven hours of time on milling machine plus the time it took to cut the blank to the proper outside diameter on a lathe. I don't know how long it took to make the three release fingers but I suppose it took the better part of a day.

I am now making the casting patterns for the bellhousing and wet clutch housing. They are two separate pieces plus to back of the clutch housing which will have the clutch release arm and a seal to keep the fluid in.

At this point, the only thing I can measure that makes any sense is to bolt the rotating assembly on the back of the engine and "lock" the cranksahft so it is stationary and put a torque wrench on the output shaft and it will hold 190 ft pounds of torque before it slips. I can add as many as three more springs and each spring can have the rate increased at least 200 percent. Maybe it will work.

Do you know of a company that makes replica Type-35 wheels? Apparently there is one in Argentina but they don't return my emails. Any thoughts?

Herman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:23 am

Quote:

Unfortunately, I have to break with Bugatti on the gearbox. There is no way to find a set of gears with anywhere close to the ratios used on the T-35 with straight cut teeth and no syncros. I found a Toyota five speed with a 2.86 first and 1 : 1 forth. I am removing the fifth gear and all its components and casting a housing for the much shortened gear units. Bugatti didn't use a layshaft as I will but there is a limit to what I can do. I also am leaving the syncros in place. It will shift exactly the same as the original Bugatti - i.e., shifter outside the body and pattern the same.

I made the decision to guess at the type of front spring anchors to use. I made shackles housed in aluminium alloy mounting assemblies. Doesn't even look like Bugatti but I don't know what he did so, rather than let the project get bogged down, I designed my own. The axel will be a more daunting challenge but that will be several months before I will begin that.

Herman · **Posted:** Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:52 pm

I got a new Email again. this time with a problem. Can anybody see if he has pictures of the connection between rear spring and axle?

Quote:

Hi, Herman.

I hope you can shed some light on a problem I ran into. On an original Type-35 rear end, there is a torque arm to keep the assembly from turning the opposite direction of the driving force of the wheels. There are two trailing arms to locate the rear end. Problem is: There has to be some compliance where the rear springs attach to the axel housings and I have no idea how it was done. None of my drawings show the way in which it was accomplished.

My casting patterns are finished for the transmission, wet plate clutch housing, and differential housing. No, they are not replica Bugatti but rather, like the rest of the car, only designed to replicate the feel, looks, and performance of the original. The gears in the transmission are from a Borg Warner T-5 and the fifth gear is removed. The syncros were left in. It will shift the same way as a original Bugatti. I changed the type of gears I am using in the differential from MGB to Peugot. Reason is that the Peugot is much lighter and has a clutch mechanism to limit the slip and, frankly, is much better than the MGB in overall quality.

The second picture is of one of the axel housings. On a Bugatti, they are refered to as "trumpets". Mine do not have the bell shaped end but they have a flared end machined into the mounting flanges. They are made of 4130 chrome moly steel which is much stronger than the mild steel Bugatti used. I decided to use MGB rear drum brakes on all four wheels rather than mechanical brakes of any kind. The only change will be the drums will be cast iron sleaves pressed into aluminum finned drums for cooling.

When I get the castings back from the foundry and machined, I will send you a picture of them.

William Kelsey

And 2 new pictures:

rivaaquarama · **Posted:** Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:08 pm

Pictures below where taken from a type 37. As far as I know the 35B had the same construction.

William Kelsey · **Joined:** Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:01 pm **Posts:** 66

My first frame attempt was a total failure. The entire thing was built up from 4130 sheet steel and welded. When removed from the assemble jigs, it warped and as fittings were added, it warped even more and cracks appeared. As this was the first steel frame I ever built not using tubes, I simply don't know how to relieve the stresses.

I decided to start over again and build the frame using a technology I am more familiar with. As this is not by any means an attempt to portray my efforts as copies of our late friend, Ettore, I feel I have license to do as I please.

I am using carbon fiber to build the new frame. I found 40 square meters of unidirectional c/f on ebay and also 50 square meters of bid c/f from another seller, again on ebay. I have close to one hundred 12k tows in stock and also several gallons of MGS epoxy. I have never been fond of using the German made MGS system because of the numerous health problems it can pose if not used properly. However, it also offers several features that make it worthwhile to take all the precautions necessary to use it. It cures at room temperature to a point and then it needs to be heated to 50 degrees C for 15 hours to attain full strength which is the highest tg of any epoxy available to me. This can be attained with a simple styrofoam "oven" heated by a simple room electric heater.

The shape for the frame is attained by using insulation styrofoam. I cut it first to slight oversize on a table saw then put a series of slits along the inside to make it easy to bend. I bonded another piece perpendicular to each rail to hold the shape. Next, I cut the exact shape and used a small router to put the edges and channels in the foam. The channels will contain ten 12K tows each along the top and bottom of the frame rails for added strength. I am also going to add several layers of extra BID c/f where things will be bolted to the frame such as engine, transmission, springs and so forth. After the epoxy is cured, I will chop all the styrofaom core out and that will leave a frame that should look very similar to the original Bugatti and much stronger and also much lighter.

At this point, the foam core is almost done. I am talking my time to make sure I have all the attachment points marked so they will have the necessary added strength at the proper place. Because of the considerable expense of the materials, I want to be sure I get this one right.

Herman · **Posted:** Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:32 am

Which MGS epoxy are you using?

When post-curing, make sure you do not heat up the structure more than 5 degrees C per hour. That's about 12 degrees F if I am right.

Cooling down also with a slight ramp rate.

Use the epoxy slightly heated, and don't forget to cook the carbon and other fabrics before using them. Lots of moisture gets trapped in the fibers, and you need to get it out beforehand.

Herman · **Posted:** Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:33 am

I will fix the photos in this topic later. (just need to replace http://forum.bug... with http://www.bug....)

The Kelsey Replica: Work in progress

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