It is currently Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:11 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Stanislas Czaykowski
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... itle=51152

That is not correct...

For clarification here a posting of myself in another board:

Czaykowski started racing with a T37A in 1929 (Comminges, 1930 St. Raphael, GP d'Oranie, Lyon, Marne GP, Comminges)

In June 1930 he bought a new 8C T35 with supercharger, #4957, delivered through Bugatti Agency Ernest Friderich, Nice, and registered 187-NM1. The factory files say that #4957 was a 2.3 litre T35B, but fact is that Czaykowski raced the 2 litre version T35C.

This is rather strange because the factory files – studied in detail and published by Hugh Conway – are rather accurate. This was one of the last SOHC T35 versions built, and I have no unidentified T35C in my list which may have been the Czaykowski car. So it may be that #4957 was changed by Bugatti on Czaykowskis request after completion.

Some remarks about the types T35C and B. Technically there was no real difference except the crank which was 100 mm for the 35B and 88 mm for the 35C. The power output for both was similar, abt. 120-130 hp with normal fuel resp. up to 170 with alcohol-benzene mix. The 2.3 litre engine had more torque, but the 2 litre version revved higher, testbed notes from Molsheim even show 10 hp more for the smaller engine. It is widely believed that the T35B was the final developed version based on the T35C, but that is wrong. Both versions had been built parallel, customers made their decision individually, also based on the nature of races they intend to enter. If one had to travel large distances to the races with his GP Bugatti on own wheels, or even used the car in daily traffic, the T35B surely was the better choice.

Czaykowski entered this car for the 1930 GP de l#ACF at Pau, and in 1931 at Tunis and Monaco. In April 1931 he bought one of the new T51 (2.3 litre DOHC), #51126, again through Friderich at Nice. he raced this car at Casablanca, Geneve, Reims, Dieppe, Grenoble, and Comminges. He kept also #4957 which he entered for Monza and Brignoles.

Next year (1932) he raced both cars parallel, sometimes even in the same events if separate races for cars up to and over 2 litres took place.
The T51 #51126 at Tunis, Monaco, Nimes, Casablanca, Nancy, Nice and Comminges, the T35C #4957 at Marseille (sprint), Rome, Nimes, Nancy, Dieppe, Nice, and Comminges.

From Nice (31.7.1932) onwards the statistics show an interesting detail - #4957 is described as T51C. Well, this was never an official designation, there was only the T51 (8C 2.3 litre DOHC) and the T51A (8C 1.5 litre DOHC). The T51 had the cylinder measurements of the T35B (60 x 100 mm) whereas the T51A had the same bore but a very short stroke (60 x 66 mm). The T51 was Bugatti's standard GP car, and the T51A was a special voiturette version (only very few built).
However, literature talks about 1 or 2 special 2 litre (60 x 88 mm) versions built on customer's request, and it seems that Czaykowskis car is one of these rare birds. It is reported that #4957 has been concerted at Molsheim to T51A and renumbered #51152. This obviously is not fully correct, because it was no 1.5 litre engine, but a 2.0 litre one. This is confirmed by the results from the GP de la Baule where the race was splitted in 3 classes – Formula Libre, 2 litre, and voiturettes (1.5 litre). And Czaykowski is listed in the 2 litre class. Interesting that also Veyron's works T51A here is entered in the 2 litre class, but that's another story which is off-topic here.

When did the conversion from #4957 to #51152 took place? As said already, the first time the designation appears was at Nice, but 1 week before at Dieppe it was still T35C. So I believe it was later, somewhere between September 1932 and May 1933.

For the first 2 races in 1933 – Pau and Tunis - Czaykowski used his T51 #51126 (the 2.3 litre GP car), at the AVUS-Rennen he first appeared with the T54 (#54209), which he also drove at Montlhery, Brooklands (British Empire Trophy), Comminges, and finally at Monza.

The T51C (#4957/#51152) he raced at Dieppe (15 July), La Baule (13 August), and Albi (27 August).
But for the 24 Heures du Mans on 17/18 June he entered a T51A in sports car trim with 1493 ccm...! How can we value this?

For sure at La Baule he drove the T51C 2 litre car, and that race was 2 months after Le Mans. So it is unlikely that the T51C was converted to 1.5 litre for Le Mans and then again back to 2 litre. The last appearance of the T51 (#51126) was in March at Tunis where Czaykowski retired with engine failure. The car in that form was more or less useless now, as for the GP races he had his new T54 monster. For the more twisty circuits – and the 2 litre class - he still had the T51C, but it would make sense to have also a car for voiturette and sports car races. As the engine of #51126 was broken anyway I believe the car was converted to T51A 1.5 litre specs, and entered for Le Mans. This corresponds also with the later history of #51126, which found its way to England, here a quote from Jean-Maurice at TNF:
" CDL means Centaur Developments Ltd, a little firm based in London at the end of 1948, beginning of 1949. with three chaps named James Boothby, the disigner Michael Chorlton and Charles Brookes. The purpose was to built Formula B models and a Formula A (one) car. All I know is that only the F1 was built: in fact it was the Bugatti 51A (1500-8 cyl) that Chorlton raced in 1947-48 (#51126). In 1947 the car was entered by F.O. Cleveland-Harmer. In 1949 the car appeared at least at Jersey and the International Trophy. It was modified in monoplace form."

As all this is somewhat difficult to read I sum it up as follows:
1929 – T37A 4C-1500 for voiturette races
1930 – new T35C 8C-2000
1931 – new T51 8C-2300 DOHC for GP - & - T35C 8C-2000 for 2 litre class
1932 – conversion of the T35C to T51C (DOHC cylinder head) for the 2 litre class - & - T51 for GP
1933 – T54 for GP - & - T51C for 2 litre class - & - conversion of the T51 to T51A (both DOHC, but engine downsized from 2300 to 1500)

Little known on my side about the registrations of Czaykowski's cars because I have not much photos. Confirmed is only "187-NM1" for #4957 (and therefore also for #51152), and "3153-NV2" for the Le Mans car (which I believe is #51126). Strange only that "NV2" is the code for Alsace, meaning it would be a Bugatti registration. Any photo of Czaykowski with one of the T35C-T51C / T51-T51A cars, especially where the registration can be seen – is highly welcome.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Merci pour toutes ces précisions.

Pas facile pour moi de traduire votre texte en français.
Les traducteurs sur Internet ne sont pas très bon !

Mais si vous êtes sûr de toutes ces informations, je pense qu'il serait bien que vous puissiez apporter les modifications vous même, directement sur "wiki" cela éviterait des erreurs de traduction.

Merci

Bugatti69

Babel Fish Traduction › Translated Text :



Thank you for all these precise details.

Not easy for me to translate your text into French.

The translators on Internet are not very good!

But if you are sure of all this information, I think that it would be although you can even bring to the modifications you, directly on "wiki" that would avoid mistranslations.

Thank you


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
One small addition, that you are probably aware of, but that other people may not know:

When the T35C was converted to 2-litre T51 in 1932, it was the cilinder blocks that were exchanged, not the heads. Both engines had integral heads (no head gaskets that could blow! Very common problem in those days).

Thank you for this very thorough article!

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stanislas Czaykowski
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:58 am
Posts: 72
Location: Miunster (Alsace)
Michael Müller wrote:
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=51152

That is not correct...

For clarification here a posting of myself in another board:

Czaykowski started racing with a T37A in 1929 (Comminges, 1930 St. Raphael, GP d'Oranie, Lyon, Marne GP, Comminges)

In June 1930 he bought a new 8C T35 with supercharger, #4957, delivered through Bugatti Agency Ernest Friderich, Nice, and registered 187-NM1. The factory files say that #4957 was a 2.3 litre T35B, but fact is that Czaykowski raced the 2 litre version T35C.

This is rather strange because the factory files – studied in detail and published by Hugh Conway – are rather accurate. This was one of the last SOHC T35 versions built, and I have no unidentified T35C in my list which may have been the Czaykowski car. So it may be that #4957 was changed by Bugatti on Czaykowskis request after completion.

[…]

Czaykowski entered this car for the 1930 GP de l#ACF at Pau, and in 1931 at Tunis and Monaco. In April 1931 he bought one of the new T51 (2.3 litre DOHC), #51126, again through Friderich at Nice. he raced this car at Casablanca, Geneve, Reims, Dieppe, Grenoble, and Comminges. He kept also #4957 which he entered for Monza and Brignoles.

Next year (1932) he raced both cars parallel, sometimes even in the same events if separate races for cars up to and over 2 litres took place.
The T51 #51126 at Tunis, Monaco, Nimes, Casablanca, Nancy, Nice and Comminges, the T35C #4957 at Marseille (sprint), Rome, Nimes, Nancy, Dieppe, Nice, and Comminges.

From Nice (31.7.1932) onwards the statistics show an interesting detail - #4957 is described as T51C. Well, this was never an official designation, there was only the T51 (8C 2.3 litre DOHC) and the T51A (8C 1.5 litre DOHC). The T51 had the cylinder measurements of the T35B (60 x 100 mm) whereas the T51A had the same bore but a very short stroke (60 x 66 mm). The T51 was Bugatti's standard GP car, and the T51A was a special voiturette version (only very few built).
However, literature talks about 1 or 2 special 2 litre (60 x 88 mm) versions built on customer's request, and it seems that Czaykowskis car is one of these rare birds. It is reported that #4957 has been concerted at Molsheim to T51A and renumbered #51152. This obviously is not fully correct, because it was no 1.5 litre engine, but a 2.0 litre one. This is confirmed by the results from the GP de la Baule where the race was splitted in 3 classes – Formula Libre, 2 litre, and voiturettes (1.5 litre). And Czaykowski is listed in the 2 litre class. Interesting that also Veyron's works T51A here is entered in the 2 litre class, but that's another story which is off-topic here.

When did the conversion from #4957 to #51152 took place? As said already, the first time the designation appears was at Nice, but 1 week before at Dieppe it was still T35C. So I believe it was later, somewhere between September 1932 and May 1933.

For the first 2 races in 1933 – Pau and Tunis - Czaykowski used his T51 #51126 (the 2.3 litre GP car), at the AVUS-Rennen he first appeared with the T54 (#54209), which he also drove at Montlhery, Brooklands (British Empire Trophy), Comminges, and finally at Monza.

The T51C (#4957/#51152) he raced at Dieppe (15 July), La Baule (13 August), and Albi (27 August).
But for the 24 Heures du Mans on 17/18 June he entered a T51A in sports car trim with 1493 ccm...! How can we value this?

For sure at La Baule he drove the T51C 2 litre car, and that race was 2 months after Le Mans. So it is unlikely that the T51C was converted to 1.5 litre for Le Mans and then again back to 2 litre. The last appearance of the T51 (#51126) was in March at Tunis where Czaykowski retired with engine failure. The car in that form was more or less useless now, as for the GP races he had his new T54 monster. For the more twisty circuits – and the 2 litre class - he still had the T51C, but it would make sense to have also a car for voiturette and sports car races. As the engine of #51126 was broken anyway I believe the car was converted to T51A 1.5 litre specs, and entered for Le Mans. This corresponds also with the later history of #51126, which found its way to England, here a quote from Jean-Maurice at TNF:
" CDL means Centaur Developments Ltd, a little firm based in London at the end of 1948, beginning of 1949. with three chaps named James Boothby, the disigner Michael Chorlton and Charles Brookes. The purpose was to built Formula B models and a Formula A (one) car. All I know is that only the F1 was built: in fact it was the Bugatti 51A (1500-8 cyl) that Chorlton raced in 1947-48 (#51126). In 1947 the car was entered by F.O. Cleveland-Harmer. In 1949 the car appeared at least at Jersey and the International Trophy. It was modified in monoplace form."

As all this is somewhat difficult to read I sum it up as follows:
1929 – T37A 4C-1500 for voiturette races
1930 – new T35C 8C-2000
1931 – new T51 8C-2300 DOHC for GP - & - T35C 8C-2000 for 2 litre class
1932 – conversion of the T35C to T51C (DOHC cylinder head) for the 2 litre class - & - T51 for GP
1933 – T54 for GP - & - T51C for 2 litre class - & - conversion of the T51 to T51A (both DOHC, but engine downsized from 2300 to 1500)

Little known on my side about the registrations of Czaykowski's cars because I have not much photos. Confirmed is only "187-NM1" for #4957 (and therefore also for #51152), and "3153-NV2" for the Le Mans car (which I believe is #51126). Strange only that "NV2" is the code for Alsace, meaning it would be a Bugatti registration. Any photo of Czaykowski with one of the T35C-T51C / T51-T51A cars, especially where the registration can be seen – is highly welcome.


51152 est bien marqué dans mes archives "4957 transformé en 1.500 double arbre à cames" et "mai 1932" pour la "construction" mais pas d'indication de vente. Peut-être le début d'une réponse.
51152 a été immatriculé à Molsheim 3153 NV 2 le 29/05/33 au nom du comte Stanislas Czaykowsky
Cet article demanderait effectivement une "bonne" traduction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Pour Aravis voici la traduction que j'ai pu faire:

Czaykowski a commencé à courir avec un T37A en 1929 (Comminges, 1930 St. Raphael, GP d'Oranie, Lyon, Marne GP, Comminges)

En juin 1930 il a acheté un nouveau T35C avec un compresseur 8cyl, # 4957, livré par Ernest Friderich de l'agence Bugatti , Nice, avec l'immatriculation 187-NM1 (F). Les dossiers d'usine indiquent que #4957 était un T35B de 2.3 litres , mais en réalité Czaykowski a réceptionné une version T35C de 2 litres.

C'est plutôt étrange parce que les dossiers d'usine, étudiés en détail et publiés par Hugh Conway, sont plutôt précis. C'était l'une des dernières versions de SOHC T35 construites, et je n'ai aucun T35C non identifié dans ma liste qui a pu être la voiture de Czaykowski. Ainsi il se peut que #4957 ait été changé au dernier moment par Bugatti sur la demande de Czaykowski .

Quelques remarques au sujet des types T35C et B. Techniquement il n'y avait pas beaucoup de différence excepté la manivelle qui était de 100 mm pour le 35B et de 88 mm pour le 35C. Le rendement de puissance pour tous les deux était semblable, abt. 120-130 HP avec le carburant normal. jusqu'à 170 avec le mélange d'alcool-benzène. Le moteur de 2.3 litres a eu plus de couple, mais la version de 2 litres cité ci avant, suivant les notes du banc d'essai de Molsheim de 10 hp de plus pour le moteur plus petit. On croit fréquemment que le T35B était la version développée finale sur la base du T35C, mais c'est erroné. Les deux versions ont été parallèlement construites, suivant le choix de chaque client, et selon la nature des courses pour lesquelles elles devaient courir. Si on devait courir de longues distances aux courses avec sa Bugatti GP avec ses propres roues, ou même utiliser la voiture au quotidien, le T35B était sûrement le meilleur choix

Czaykowski a présenté cette voiture pour le GP de l'ACF à Pau en 1930, et en 1931 à Tunis et à Monaco. En avril 1931 il a acheté un des nouveaux T51 (2.3 litres DOHC), # 51126, à Friderich à Nice. il a couru avec cette voiture à Casablanca, Genève, à Reims, Dieppe, à Grenoble, et Comminges. Il a gardé également #4957 qu'il a utilisé pour Monza et Brignoles.

L'année suivante (1932) il a couru avec les deux voitures, même parfois dans la même manifestation si les courses étaient prévues séparées pour des voitures jusqu'à et plus de 2 litres.
Le T51 #51126 à Tunis, le Monaco, à Nîmes, à Casablanca, à Nancy, à Nice et Comminges, le T35C #4957 à Marseille (sprint), à Rome, à Nîmes, à Nancy, Dieppe, à Nice, et Comminges.

De Nice (31.7.1932)et avant l'exposition est précisé un détail intéressant - Le #4957 est décrit comme T51C. Bien que ce n'a jamais été une désignation officielle, il y avait seulement des T51 (8cyl. 2.3 litre DOHC) et des T51A (8cyl. 1.5 litre DOHC). Le T51 a eu les mesures de cylindre du T35B (60 x 100 mm) tandis que le T51A a eu le même mais avec une course très courte (60 x 66 mm). Le T51 était la voiture standard GP de Bugatti, et le T51A était une version spéciale de voiturette (très peu construit).
Cependant, la documentation parle de 1 ou 2 versions spéciales de 2 litres (60 x 88 mm) construites sur la demande de client, et il semble que la voiture de Czaykowskis est l'un de ces oiseaux rares. On signale que #4957 a été indiqué à Molsheim comme un T51A et renuméroté avec # 51152. Ce n'est pas évidemment correct, parce que ce n'était pas un moteur de 1.5 litre, mais un 2.0 litres . Ceci est confirmé par les résultats du GP de la Baule où la course était répartie en 3 classes: formule Libre, 2 litres, et voiturettes (1.5 litre). Et Czaykowski est indiqué dans la classe de 2 litres. Intéressant aussi que le T51A de Veyron est aussi couru dans la classe de 2 litres, mais c'est une autre histoire qui n'a rien à voir avec le présent sujet.

Quand la conversion de #4957 en #51152 a-t-elle eu lieu ? Comme dit ci-avant, la première fois que la désignation apparaît avait eu lieu à Nice, mais 1 semaine avant l'immobilisation du T35C à Dieppe. Ainsi je crois qu'il était plus tard, entre septembre 1932 et mai 1933.

Pour les 2 premières courses en 1933 - Pau et Tunis - Czaykowski a utilisé son T51 #51126 (la voiture de GP de 2.3 litres), chez l'AVUS-Rennen qu'il est apparu la première fois avec le T54 (# 54209), qu'il a également conduit à Montlhery, Brooklands (British Empire Trophy), Comminges, et finalement à Monza.

Le T51C (# 4957/#51152) qu'il a utilisé à Dieppe (15 juillet), La Baule (13 août), et Albi (27 août).
Mais pour 24 Heures du Mans 17/18 juin, il a écrit un T51A comme voiture de sport avec 1493 ccm...! Comment pouvons-nous comprendre ceci ?

C'est sûr à la La Baule il a conduit le T51C voiture de 2 litres, et cette course était de 2 mois après le Mans. Ainsi il est peu probable que le T51C ait été converti en 1.5 litre pour Le Mans et de l'autre côté de nouveau à 2 litres. La derniere apparition du T51 (# 51126) était en mars à Tunis où Czaykowski s'est retiré avec moteur cassé. La voiture sous cette forme était plus ou moins inutile maintenant, pour courses de GP il a pris son nouveau monstre T54. Pour les circuits twisty - et la classe de 2 litres - il prenait toujours le T51C, mais il s'assurait d'avoir également une voiture pour voiturettes et courses de sport. Car le moteur de #51126 était cassé de toute façon je ne crois pas que la voiture a été convertie en T51A de 1.5 litre spec.,pour courir à Le Mans. Ceci correspond également à l'histoire postérieure # de 51126, qui a trouvé son chemin en Angleterre, ici une citation de Jean-Maurice à TNF :
"CDL signifie Centaur Developments Ltd, un petit établissement basé à Londres à la fin de l'année 1948, entreprenant en 1949. Avec trois associés appelées James Boothby, le concepteur Michael Chorlton et Charles Brookes. Le but était la construction d'une voiture de Formule B et de Formule A (F1). Tout que je sais est que seulement le F1 a été construit : en fait c'était la Bugatti 51A (1500-8 cyl) que Chorlton a couru en 1947-48 (# 51126). En 1947 la voiture a été utilisée par F.O. Cleveland-Harmer. En 1949 la voiture est apparue au moins à Jersey et au International Trophy. Elle a été modifiée en monoplace."

Comme il est difficile de suivre tout cela, je résume :

1929 – T37A 4cyl-1500 for voiturette races
1930 – new T35C 8cyl-2000 > T35C GP 1930 (# 4957) 187-NM1 (F)
1931 – new T51 8cyl-2300 DOHC for GP > T51 GP (# 51126)- & - T35C 8cyl-2000 for 2 litre class >T35C GP 1930 (# 4957) 187-NM1 (F)
1932 – conversion of the T35C to T51C (DOHC cylinder head) for the 2 litre class >T35C GP 1930 (# 4957) 187-NM1 (F)- & - T51 for GP > T51 GP (# 51126)
1933 – T54 for GP > T54 GP 1932 (54209)- & - T51C for 2 litre class >T51C GP (# 4957/#51152)- & - conversion of the T51 to T51A (both DOHC, but engine downsized from 2300 to 1500) > T51>51A GP (# 51126)

Je connais peu les immatriculations des voitures de Czaykowski parce que je n'ai pas beaucoup photos. Seulement est confirmé "187-NM1" pour #4957 (et donc aussi pour # 51152), et "3153-NV2" pour la voiture du Mans (que je crois être # 51126 ). Étrange seulement que "NV2" est le code pour Alsace, cela signifie que ce serait une immatriculation de Bugatti. N'importe quelle photo de Czaykowski avec une des voitures de T35C-T51C/T51-T51A, particulièrement où l'immatriculation peut être vu - est fortement bienvenu.

--------------------------------

[3153 NV2 apparaît bien sur une photo du Mans, et si l'enregistrement à Molsheim est 51152 pour cette immatriculation, ce n'est évidemment pas le 51126.

"3153-NV2" pour la voiture du Mans :# 51126 ou # 51152 ???


-


Last edited by bugatti69 on Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
At the GP de La Baule (13 Aug 1933) Czaykowski started with a T51C (sic). There had been 3 classes combined in one race:
- Formula Libre (won by "Williams" with a T54
- 2 litre (won by Czaykowski)
- 1.5 litre voiturettes (no finisher, but was led by Anne-Cecile Rose-Itier with her T51A before she crashed)

Czaykowski at that time owned 3 cars:
The T54 #54209 (out of question)
The T51 #51126 (he could NOT start in the 2 litre class with this car)
The T51C/A #51152
If the latter would have been a 1.5 litre car, he would have been able to start in the voiturette class, but he entered the car for the 2 litre class.

It is also confirmed that #51126 (NOT #51152) in the early postwar years appeared in England, and was raced there by Michael Chorlton as 1.5 litre s/c car. So there is only one logical conclusion - #51152 (ex #4957) was a 2 litre car, and #51126 (originally 2.3 litres) was converted to 1.5 litres.
I don't doubt the registration 3153-NV2 for #51152, but most probably it was used for #51126 also.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
bugatti69 wrote:
But if you are sure of all this information, I think that it would be although you can even bring to the modifications you, directly on "wiki" that would avoid mistranslations.

No, I'm not sure, but it's the logical conclusion from the available facts.
Therefore I put it here for further discussion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
J.J.Horst wrote:
One small addition, that you are probably aware of...!

I am aware of it, but frankly spoken didn't consider it when writing the above... :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
"...I don't doubt the registration 3153-NV2 for #51152, but most probably it was used for #51126 also..."

Ce qui est probablement vrai , des immatriculations de Molsheim étaient souvent utilisées par Ettore Bugatti pour des bugatti différentes.

le moteur du 51126 ayant été cassé, cela justifierait qu'il est été remplacé par un autre moteur, le 1,5 litre pour courir au Mans

----------------

What is probably true, of the registrations of Molsheim were often used by Ettore Bugatti for different bugatti.

the engine of the 51126 having been broken, that would justify that it is replaced by another engine, the 1,5 liter to run in Mans


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
bugatti69 wrote:
the engine of the 51126 having been broken, that would justify that it is replaced by another engine, the 1,5 liter to run in Mans

That's also part of my argumentation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stanislas Czaykowski
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:16 pm
Posts: 338
Michael Müller wrote:
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=51152

That is not correct...

For clarification here a posting of myself in another board:

Czaykowski started racing with a T37A in 1929 (Comminges, 1930 St. Raphael, GP d'Oranie, Lyon, Marne GP, Comminges)

In June 1930 he bought a new 8C T35 with supercharger, #4957, delivered through Bugatti Agency Ernest Friderich, Nice, and registered 187-NM1. The factory files say that #4957 was a 2.3 litre T35B, but fact is that Czaykowski raced the 2 litre version T35C.

This is rather strange because the factory files – studied in detail and published by Hugh Conway – are rather accurate. This was one of the last SOHC T35 versions built, and I have no unidentified T35C in my list which may have been the Czaykowski car. So it may be that #4957 was changed by Bugatti on Czaykowskis request after completion.

Some remarks about the types T35C and B. Technically there was no real difference except the crank which was 100 mm for the 35B and 88 mm for the 35C. The power output for both was similar, abt. 120-130 hp with normal fuel resp. up to 170 with alcohol-benzene mix. The 2.3 litre engine had more torque, but the 2 litre version revved higher, testbed notes from Molsheim even show 10 hp more for the smaller engine. It is widely believed that the T35B was the final developed version based on the T35C, but that is wrong. Both versions had been built parallel, customers made their decision individually, also based on the nature of races they intend to enter. If one had to travel large distances to the races with his GP Bugatti on own wheels, or even used the car in daily traffic, the T35B surely was the better choice.

Czaykowski entered this car for the 1930 GP de l#ACF at Pau, and in 1931 at Tunis and Monaco. In April 1931 he bought one of the new T51 (2.3 litre DOHC), #51126, again through Friderich at Nice. he raced this car at Casablanca, Geneve, Reims, Dieppe, Grenoble, and Comminges. He kept also #4957 which he entered for Monza and Brignoles.

Next year (1932) he raced both cars parallel, sometimes even in the same events if separate races for cars up to and over 2 litres took place.
The T51 #51126 at Tunis, Monaco, Nimes, Casablanca, Nancy, Nice and Comminges, the T35C #4957 at Marseille (sprint), Rome, Nimes, Nancy, Dieppe, Nice, and Comminges.

From Nice (31.7.1932) onwards the statistics show an interesting detail - #4957 is described as T51C. Well, this was never an official designation, there was only the T51 (8C 2.3 litre DOHC) and the T51A (8C 1.5 litre DOHC). The T51 had the cylinder measurements of the T35B (60 x 100 mm) whereas the T51A had the same bore but a very short stroke (60 x 66 mm). The T51 was Bugatti's standard GP car, and the T51A was a special voiturette version (only very few built).
However, literature talks about 1 or 2 special 2 litre (60 x 88 mm) versions built on customer's request, and it seems that Czaykowskis car is one of these rare birds. It is reported that #4957 has been concerted at Molsheim to T51A and renumbered #51152. This obviously is not fully correct, because it was no 1.5 litre engine, but a 2.0 litre one. This is confirmed by the results from the GP de la Baule where the race was splitted in 3 classes – Formula Libre, 2 litre, and voiturettes (1.5 litre). And Czaykowski is listed in the 2 litre class. Interesting that also Veyron's works T51A here is entered in the 2 litre class, but that's another story which is off-topic here.

When did the conversion from #4957 to #51152 took place? As said already, the first time the designation appears was at Nice, but 1 week before at Dieppe it was still T35C. So I believe it was later, somewhere between September 1932 and May 1933.

For the first 2 races in 1933 – Pau and Tunis - Czaykowski used his T51 #51126 (the 2.3 litre GP car), at the AVUS-Rennen he first appeared with the T54 (#54209), which he also drove at Montlhery, Brooklands (British Empire Trophy), Comminges, and finally at Monza.

The T51C (#4957/#51152) he raced at Dieppe (15 July), La Baule (13 August), and Albi (27 August).
But for the 24 Heures du Mans on 17/18 June he entered a T51A in sports car trim with 1493 ccm...! How can we value this?

For sure at La Baule he drove the T51C 2 litre car, and that race was 2 months after Le Mans. So it is unlikely that the T51C was converted to 1.5 litre for Le Mans and then again back to 2 litre. The last appearance of the T51 (#51126) was in March at Tunis where Czaykowski retired with engine failure. The car in that form was more or less useless now, as for the GP races he had his new T54 monster. For the more twisty circuits – and the 2 litre class - he still had the T51C, but it would make sense to have also a car for voiturette and sports car races. As the engine of #51126 was broken anyway I believe the car was converted to T51A 1.5 litre specs, and entered for Le Mans. This corresponds also with the later history of #51126, which found its way to England, here a quote from Jean-Maurice at TNF:
" CDL means Centaur Developments Ltd, a little firm based in London at the end of 1948, beginning of 1949. with three chaps named James Boothby, the disigner Michael Chorlton and Charles Brookes. The purpose was to built Formula B models and a Formula A (one) car. All I know is that only the F1 was built: in fact it was the Bugatti 51A (1500-8 cyl) that Chorlton raced in 1947-48 (#51126). In 1947 the car was entered by F.O. Cleveland-Harmer. In 1949 the car appeared at least at Jersey and the International Trophy. It was modified in monoplace form."

As all this is somewhat difficult to read I sum it up as follows:
1929 – T37A 4C-1500 for voiturette races
1930 – new T35C 8C-2000
1931 – new T51 8C-2300 DOHC for GP - & - T35C 8C-2000 for 2 litre class
1932 – conversion of the T35C to T51C (DOHC cylinder head) for the 2 litre class - & - T51 for GP
1933 – T54 for GP - & - T51C for 2 litre class - & - conversion of the T51 to T51A (both DOHC, but engine downsized from 2300 to 1500)

Little known on my side about the registrations of Czaykowski's cars because I have not much photos. Confirmed is only "187-NM1" for #4957 (and therefore also for #51152), and "3153-NV2" for the Le Mans car (which I believe is #51126). Strange only that "NV2" is the code for Alsace, meaning it would be a Bugatti registration. Any photo of Czaykowski with one of the T35C-T51C / T51-T51A cars, especially where the registration can be seen – is highly welcome.


It seems to me that the only evidence you have that 4957 was converted to a type C (88mm crank) is based on the fact that the car was entered in the 2 liter class at La Baule.
Factory notes reveal however that on 14-2-33 4957 was transformed to T51 1L.500 and renamed 51152. The engine was rebuilt on 21-08-33 again as 1L500.
How does this change your view of which car was entered by Czaikowski for the several events?
The Le Mans entry certainly was 51152.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Valid CSS :: Valid XHTML Copyright © 2007 by Bugattibuilder.com :: Disclaimer :: Contact :: Advertising possibilities

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group