1st E. Materassi ....... Bugatti 35C (n°24) Targa Florio 1927
It is not the same one of: T35C GP 1927 (4846), #2 GP Tripoli 1927, Emilio Materassi, 1st (different from Targa Florio). To see protection with hearing in front of radiator
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| Author: | Hunter [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Materassi. |
MATERASSI, Emilio. See picture in photo gallery. The winner of the 1927 Targa Florio in his type 35C and the Tripoli Grand Prix, 1927 with a Grand Prix Bugatti, (4846). He was the Champion of Italy in 1927 but was killed at Monza on the 9th September, 1928. |
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| Author: | bugatti69 [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:41 pm ] |
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1st E. Materassi ....... Bugatti 35C (n°24) Targa Florio 1927 It is not the same one of: T35C GP 1927 (4846), #2 GP Tripoli 1927, Emilio Materassi, 1st (different from Targa Florio). To see protection with hearing in front of radiator
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:42 pm ] |
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You are right. But more important are the large brake drums of the Targa car compared to the older small ones of the Tripoli car. I have his entry at the TF as works entry, also that for San Sebastian. Possibly the entries for Tripoli, Bologna, Pescara, and Livorna had been private ones with his own Bugatti #4846. I also have #4880 (T35B) for him, but not for sure, only a small note with a questionmark. |
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| Author: | bugatti69 [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:01 am ] |
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#4846 : - #2 Grand Prix de Tripoli 1927, Emilio Materassi, 1st - Premio di Bologna 1927, Emilio Materassi, 1st - #1 Gran Premio de San Sebastian 1927, Emilio Materassi, 1st - Coppa Acerbo 1927, Emilio Materassi, Did Not Finish - #23 Circuito del Montenero 1927, Emilio Materassi, 1st T39A : - #11 British GP Brooklands 1927, Emilio Materassi (5e) |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:24 am ] |
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He also drove one of the 3 works T39A's (#4896 / #4897 / #4898) at the Gran Premio de Espana (San Sebastian) on 31.7.1927. The San Sebastian GP (Formula Libre) was one week earlier, I doubt that he brought his own #4846 from Italy. All 3 works drivers (Materassi, Dubonnet, Conelli) started with T35C's, they stayed the whole week at San Sebastian, so there was enough time for the mechanics to change the engines for the Spanish GP to 1.5 litre. Dubonnet had no own T35C at that time, only a T37, and the year before an unsupercharged T35. Also Conelli in 1927 privately had a T37A only, the T35B he got only later, and he never had a T35C. So I am convinced that all 3 T35C at San Sebastian had been works cars. |
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| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:18 pm ] |
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Michael Müller wrote: The San Sebastian GP (Formula Libre) was one week earlier, ........, they stayed the whole week at San Sebastian, so there was enough time for the mechanics to change the engines for the Spanish GP to 1.5 litre.
I remember seeing a picture where we could see 5 or 6 GP Bugatti taken before or after the San Sebastian races, if anyone can find it. What about chassis number 4890, 4891, two works 35C, and 4890 was registered the 11/07/27. Can't it be the 35C's raced in Formula Libre ? |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:57 pm ] |
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bugfan wrote: What about chassis number 4890, 4891, two works 35C, and 4890 was registered the 11/07/27. Can't it be the 35C's raced in Formula Libre ?
You are right! I even have 2 listed for the GP San Sebastian. #4889, registered 5033-J4. After that it has been left at the disposal of agent Bertrand y Serra. #4890, registered 5031-J4. After San Sebastian it was delivered Agency Giraud & Hoffmann Marseille for Louis Chiron. The French magazine "Omnia" reports a 2 litre car also for Chiron, which would mean a 4th works car, as Chiron's own car at that time (#4817) was a 2.3 litre. Possibly he drove his later T35C #4890 (see above) already at San Sebastian as works car. What about #4891? I have this car being sold in March 1928 to Williams. Could it be the 3rd works car for San Sebastian? And which one was the 4th? |
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| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:38 pm ] |
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Hi Michael, I am studing the very early history of the T35C. Starting in september 26 at Monza, and all the 27 season. I'll be glad to share with some thoughs on this study. |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:32 pm ] |
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That's very interesting, because I have only fragmentary data for this period. I have no information about the 2 works cars at Monza, and also not about Maggi's car at Salo in October 1926. I have Maggi's #4856 with delivery only in June 1927. |
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| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:04 pm ] |
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My first idea is that the factory had not much works cars for the 27 season, probably 4 T39 (4894,4896,4897,4898) and 4 T35C (4881,4882,4889,4890). But I think that the chassis number can't really be used, because they could be allocaded to the car the day of the sale. The engine number gives more information about the period of production of a car, specially the car that could be used by the factory for works racing prior to be sold to customer. If we look at the chassis number, engine number and date of delivery for the Bugatti T35A, we can see that there is not disorder and it follow a chronological order (for most of the cases) which is normal because the T35A were not raced by the factory For the T39, only a few were built and they were sold to race customers after been works cars for one or two races. On the other hand, the production of T35C is not chronological, and the chassis number and the date of delivery are not giving much information on the date of the production of the car. The engine number is really the only real information. For the 1927 San Sebastian GP, the works entries are 4889 and 4890, with engine 152 and 154, cars freshly built. One will stay in Spain (4889) and the other one probably "pre-sold" to Chiron (4890) all that makes sense. Now for the two other works T35C we can consider all the other T35C with lower engine number and not sold yet by the factory, I think the list is pretty extensive. Lets study that. |
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| Author: | Michael Müller [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:22 pm ] |
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I fully agree with your conclusions, and the engine numbers are a good idea. However, I believe it's better to start a new thread for that. |
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| Author: | Johan Buchner [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:33 pm ] |
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I agree, how about a thread for each? Makes keeping track of individual cars a little easier. The sheer volume of hard-core quality research becoming available on this forum is mind-boggling. |
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| Author: | bugfan [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:12 pm ] |
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Ok, so I was not prepared, but now I just compiled the note from Conway, and we have for the possible T35C works cars (with 4889 and 4890) at the 1927 San Sebastian GP (FL) : - 4895 engine 150, sold in July 27 to private but Raffaëlli gives works chassis number, a T39 registered in may 28. - 4870 engine 141 Works car Targa florio 1927 sold in '29 - 4871 engine 139 Works car Targa florio 1927 sold in May '28 - 4917 engine 133 sold to Williams in Nov '28 - 4892 engine 119 sold to Nuvolari in feb '28 - 4891 engine 118 sold to Williams in March '28 - 4936 engine 116 sold to Escher in June '29 - 4893 engine 115 sold to Alberto Musy Turino in feb '28 - 4865 engine 100 The GP Bugatti Price, '28 - 4882 engine 85 sold by Hoffmann Marseilles feb '28 (not a mistake) The other cars (with engine between 85 and 151) were all sold in July '27. All those cars make sense, being sold to works drivers (Williams, Nuvolari), price car, refurbished and resold. From other studies I did (and will explain later), I take out 4870, 4871 and 4882. What do you think ? |
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| Author: | ccarlo [ Mon May 12, 2014 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Materassi. |
Hello, does anyone have news of the 1927 Bugatti chassis 4846 (type 35B or 35C). The car was driven by my grandfather, even in some races. I appreciate see this car again if exsting. I have some nice photos of this car in 1932/1933. Thanks for the info. |
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| Author: | bugatti69 [ Mon May 12, 2014 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Materassi. |
ccarlo wrote: Hello, does anyone have news of the 1927 Bugatti chassis 4846 (type 35B or 35C). The car was driven by my grandfather, even in some races. I appreciate see this car again if exsting. I have some nice photos of this car in 1932/1933. Thanks for the info. See on bugattiregister.com : http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/ind ... title=4846 |
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