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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Posts: 23
The fabulous Voisin book („Automobiles Voisin 1919.1958“ by Pascal Courteault isn´t really rare, with 3500 copies printed – but it seems everybody wants to keep theirs! The book trade asks 400-600 Euros but cheaper copies occasionally appear at autojumbles and in bookstores. Another Voisin book was printed in the 1980´s, „Toutes les Voisin“ by René Bellu, in the same series with „Toutes les Bugatti“; as a type-by-type reference on Voisin cars, this still is the best.

Regards
sleevevalve


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:29 pm 
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sleevevalve wrote:
The fabulous Voisin book („Automobiles Voisin 1919.1958“ by Pascal Courteault isn´t really rare, with 3500 copies printed – but it seems everybody wants to keep theirs! The book trade asks 400-600 Euros but cheaper copies occasionally appear at autojumbles and in bookstores. Another Voisin book was printed in the 1980´s, „Toutes les Voisin“ by René Bellu, in the same series with „Toutes les Bugatti“; as a type-by-type reference on Voisin cars, this still is the best.

Regards
sleevevalve



Only 3.500 copies printed and it is NOT rare? Books with 500 or 700 copies printed can be considered VERY RARE; but I do not think that a book with an edition of 3.500 copies can be considered as very usual and easy to find.

About "Toutes les Voisin", it does not have anything to do with the series "Toutes les Renault/Citroën/Peugeot". The books on Voisin, Packard and Bugatti had to be published by the author himself and are basically binders containing a compilation of pictures reproduced in photographic paper. A good job, indeed, but different from the other books by the same author (René Bellu) published by J.P. Delville.

I have seen the Voisin book by Courteault offered for EUR 1.000. I bought my copy (including the English translation booklet) for EUR 90 when this book was sold out by the publisher, E.P.A.; this company itself was liquidated not much time afterwards. As E.P.A. does not exist any longer, this book will not be reprinted. And no, I think that I will never sell my copy.

I also own "Les Automobiles Delage" by Jacques Rousseau. I have also seen copies of this book for sale for EUR 600. I bought it as a second hand book and I paid EUR 250 for it and it became one of my most expensive books at that time. I think that today I would not pay EUR 600 for it.

These prices are absolutely abusive. Solution? There is not any solution: If you wish to own these books, you have to pay those abusive prices. The only thing one can do is not to become obsessed with books or none other hobby.

Johan, do not want to know more on the book on Voisin :wink: .


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
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Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Lanos I am actually enjoying this thread about books on other marques immensely. For the moment it is purely theoretical, but it is only a matter of time before I venture into other marques. And I know very little, not only what is available, but also the quality of the stuff that is available.

But I will tell you what marque's literature confuse me no end - Ferrari. There is so much out there, and new books are getting published all the time. How will I ever be able to pick a handful of books to teach me about this marque, without ending up to my neck in useless Ferrari picture books?

At least with lost pre-WWII marques, the literature is rather limited. I tell you one thing, us Bugatti book collectors are spoilt for choice indeed! A mere 8000 cars and look at the quality of the books already out there. And Laugier, Klein, Jansen et al are just beginning to get into their stride.

Books are addictive - great books even more so!

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Depends… for an expensive book on a highly specialized subject, a 3500 print run is quite an achievement. Today´s publishers usually choose smaller editions (e.g. 1000 copies of the new Hucke/Kruta Bugatti book; 900 copies of Buckley´s Facel Vega…). I´m not happy about sky-high secondhand prices either; not at all. There still seems to be a strong market, at least for the "top" motoring books.

Speaking of books: does any of you Gentlemen know about Peter McGann´s Bugatti Brescia book? A re-print was announced for 2008 but I haven´t heard of it since. The original (1990) book sells for huge money nowadays, so I look forward to the new edition.

Regards
sleevevalve


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:22 pm
Posts: 191
when you are ready to venture in other marques, then let's talk a bit better Johan
i'm sure that i can be the advocate of the devil & the devil then :lol:

about Ferrari, that's what started my car crazy passion with me
i have a seperate triple bookcase for that marque alone & it always keeps growing :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Posts: 102
sleevevalve wrote:
Depends… for an expensive book on a highly specialized subject, a 3500 print run is quite an achievement. Today´s publishers usually choose smaller editions (e.g. 1000 copies of the new Hucke/Kruta Bugatti book; 900 copies of Buckley´s Facel Vega…).


Yes, you are very right and that is the truth: This kind of books are always very rare and 3.500 are many books for this kind of books.

About the book on Facel Vega, I did not know it. It could be really interesting, but I have checked the web page of the publishers and they do not show many details: Too scarce information to buy such an expensive book...

I own the book "Facel Vega" by Jean Daninos; I paid EUR 25 for it. Today, it would not be strange that the price could be EUR 60 or higher...

Johan, I am very sorry but I cannot help you with books on Ferrari. I only own 4 books:
- Great Marques: Ferrari, by Godfrey Eaton.
- The Complete Ferrari, by Godfrey Eaton.
- Ferrari - The man and his machines, by Pete Lyons.
- The multilingual book on Ferrari published by Könemann.

As you can see, none of them is the comprehensive kind of book that you are looking for. I am more interested in prewar cars.


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
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Location: Vienne France
I knew Jean Daninos and his book is very good value if a tad biased ! Most of the info for the dreaded Buckleys book is from Daninos and is in areas suspect or quite wrong,borrow someone elses or wait till next year for the two volume Facel book from the french facel club.It is a corker.You will discover things like the fact that Daninos did not actually start facel ! You would never have heard this from him.


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Thanks, Lazarus, for your valuable and very qualified advice.

I did not know anything either on that two volume book by the Facel Vega Club. But, will this book be available only for club members, or will it be also sold in bookshops?


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:25 pm 
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Location: Vienne France
LANOS wrote:
Thanks, Lazarus, for your valuable and very qualified advice.

I did not know anything either on that two volume book by the Facel Vega Club. But, will this book be available only for club members, or will it be also sold in bookshops?

It will be available in shops.It is one of the most remarkable tomes that i have yet seen.The second volume is of factory materiel never previously published.every brochure/and drawings.I have been proof reading and adding to the chapter on Facellias.It has taken years of work and from the beginning was intended to be the definitive book on the marque.It is in english and french.It will not be cheap but will be the only book you need on this subject.


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:39 pm 
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Lazarus wrote:
It will not be cheap but will be the only book you need on this subject.


Neither the Buckley's book is cheap... I will wait for the French FV club's book.


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:22 pm
Posts: 191
Lazarus wrote:
LANOS wrote:
Thanks, Lazarus, for your valuable and very qualified advice.

I did not know anything either on that two volume book by the Facel Vega Club. But, will this book be available only for club members, or will it be also sold in bookshops?

It will be available in shops.It is one of the most remarkable tomes that i have yet seen.The second volume is of factory materiel never previously published.every brochure/and drawings.I have been proof reading and adding to the chapter on Facellias.It has taken years of work and from the beginning was intended to be the definitive book on the marque.It is in english and french.It will not be cheap but will be the only book you need on this subject.



uh oh
that means another new addition :D


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
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Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
I was under the impression that the Buckley book was the definitive history of Facel Vega. Of course I've never even seen a copy of it, just the review. Which was in Classic & Sports Car. For whom Martin Buckley works. Which might explain the glowing review. So, just how bad is it then?

Lanos I have the Great Marques book on Ferrari too, and the one on Mercedes Benz. I'm with you on the pre-war marques though, they were glorious. Interesting thing about the thirties, some of the greatest cars of all time was built during a decade that started with the Great Depression and ended with the start of WWII. So if and when I stray from Bugatti it will definitely be the 1930s - probably Delage, I have this thing for the D8-120. Specifically Sam Mann's de Villars Roadster and his Portout Coupe, Pebble winners both.

There's going to be a new edition of the McGann Brescia book? And I keep hearing rumours about Laugier's T51 masterpiece being unveiled "real soon." Methinks the other marques may have to wait a while longer.

One last thing Lanos, I absolutely love Fantastique Bugatti. The best photographs of the Coupe Napoleon I've ever seen. I remember you were a little reserved about this work, preferring instead the Conway/Greilshamer work. But for me Fantastique really hits the sweet spot. Mind you, I am going through a bit of neglect Conway phase ; thanks to Lazarus I've become quite fascinated with Bugatti's later years and Hugh Conway never made a secret of his disdain for anything post-39, or should that be post-34? The definitive history of Bugatti -1939 to the bitter end, still needs to be written. Any volunteers?

Kind Regards
Johan


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Johan Buchner wrote:
One last thing Lanos, I absolutely love Fantastique Bugatti. The best photographs of the Coupe Napoleon I've ever seen. I remember you were a little reserved about this work, preferring instead the Conway/Greilshamer work. But for me Fantastique really hits the sweet spot. Mind you, I am going through a bit of neglect Conway phase ; thanks to Lazarus I've become quite fascinated with Bugatti's later years and Hugh Conway never made a secret of his disdain for anything post-39, or should that be post-34? The definitive history of Bugatti -1939 to the bitter end, still needs to be written. Any volunteers?

Kind Regards
Johan


I hoped more from Fantastiques Bugatti, specially considering its price. I admit that it is a very good book, but Conway/Greilsamer's cover more types.

Reviewing the books of your collection, I would suggest you to buy "Bugatti Guide" and "Bugatti" by Sabatés. Both written in French, the first a guide year by year of all the models produced (B/W illustrated-A5 sized). The second, a very basic book, but completely in color and bigger size (A4). Both are basic books (and cheap and easy to find), but I began buying this kind of books and afterwards came the other expensive and very specialized books on the Marque. I also consider "Bugatti, Eleganz auf Rädern" (in German) an interesting addition (B/W and color; a general story like Sabatés´s book).

If you begin to be interested in Delage, you cannot forget Delahaye (and its 135/235). Both makes are related and made similar cars.

All the luxury French car makers disappeared in the 50's because of the very high taxes on big cars. The small Bugatti T252 could have had a good chance in that situation. Facel Vega took the spirit of those great French cars until the 60's using big Chrysler V8 engines; but it was the 1.650 cc Facellia what ruined the make's reputation...

I agree absolutely with you, Conway did not consider the postwar Bugattis as real Bugattis and gave very scarce information in his books about the post T57 types.

I have learnt more in this forum about the postwar types that reading all my books. And I feel that much information has still to be unvealed.

Thanks to all of you.


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:52 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands
I think this this topic is not on the 46-book anymore . . .

For quite a few years Í have been collecting automobile books - mostly on Bugatti. I'm proud to have almost every book ever published on la marque. Of course: if you're interested in Bugatti history, it is absolutely not necessary to have them all.

Johan: looking at what you have and aim I would not spend my money on the 1962 register if I were you. It is very different from for example the modern Dutch registers to which you refer. Get your copy of the Swiss Bugatti register fast and don't forget to order the Bucciali book by Christian Huet. As far as I know, these books are still available new and both still at a very reasonabe price.

Maybe we can work on a list of favourite Bugatti-books (and, maybe more interesting: the books on which you better NOT waste your money).

regards,
Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: About the T46 book
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 102
Patrick wrote:
Maybe we can work on a list of favourite Bugatti-books (and, maybe more interesting: the books on which you better NOT waste your money)


That may be a "conflictive" matter; it depends so much on each person´s interests and preferences...


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