It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:55 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Is 50133 actually 50144?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:49 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Image

Greetings Wiki contributors.

In Andy Rheault's American Register this car is said to be 50133 fitted with engine and coachwork from 50144. By the time Sandy Leith published his Register in 2003 new research suggests this car is now, and has always been, 50144 with engine no.34.

To the best of my knowledge the chassis number was only revealed once the car had been in America for quite a while, certainly Col. Giles never mentioned any chassis numbers in Bugantics. It seems reasonable that it was in the US during the 1950s that the confusion arose.

But I am not comfortable with changing information on Wiki ; please debate this amongst yourselves and if you conclude this to be 50144, then perhaps Wiki can be so ammended.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Bugatti Trust Photo Archive Album 14 - Type 50: > 50133

To see #183, #192A, #193, #216 at #219, on: http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/photogra ... ?g2_page=4 and http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/photogra ... ?g2_page=5

Sandy Leith published his Register in 2003 new research suggests this car is now, and has always been, 50144 with engine no.34.

Conway called in Magnum:
the first owner of the 57133 was Leon Fabre in Paris.
the first owner of the 57144 was Bartifaut

Was T50 of the coll Gilles the property of Fabre or Bartifaut?

If the engine and the body are of the 57144 and that it there not of connection with Fabre, it appears probable to me that they are the 57144 and not 57133.

Except that Bugatti Trust specifies that they are the 57133. Why?

Christian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:13 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
I honestly do not know. Something else I do not know is whether the present coachwork was the first body on this car. If the body is by Corsica (apparently the second body, the open "Le Mans" type tourer was by them as well) then I doubt if it was the first ; if it was done by Van Vooren, as Sandy Leith believes, then it might be.

As to whether this car should be 50133 or 50144, it depends, I suppose, on which source you find the most trustworthy, the Bugatti Trust's research or the 2003 American Register.

Best of luck trying to figure out how to update Wiki. As for me, I have no advise to give.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:23 pm
Posts: 127
Dear Johan and Christian:

I thought it worthy of note that the first mention of the Col. Giles T50 that I have found anywhere is in the Jack Lemon Burton purchase and sale ledgers. He rarely wrote down chassis numbers and never wrote down Type numbers...if it was a T50, it was a "4.9 litre". The subject car is one of the exceptions: it is listed as "Bugatti 4.9 litre 50144". Lemon Burton imported it from France on January 1, 1937, paying 174 GBP and duty of 43 GBP. He sold it to Giles the same day for 300 GBP, a nice healthy mark-up and the same-day sale implies (to me) that Giles had him looking for a "4.9 litre". .

I am still seeking an explanation for the Conway 50133 attribution, but I am also beginning to feel more and more confident in my feeling that the car is 50144...a position I have maintained for 10 years.

VLM,

Sandy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
See: http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/ind ... itle=50144

Christian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:23 pm
Posts: 127
Dear All:

The answer to this question is YES. While I was never able to determine why the chassis number was changed over here in the US, it "evolved" into 50133 during Stanley Levine's ownership. The car is 50144 and Gooding's catalog will contain a comprehensive history of the car, including the story of how the Van Vooren fixed head coupe was modified by Corsica into a drophead coupe, per the order of Col. Giles.

Cheers,

Sandy


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Valid CSS :: Valid XHTML Copyright © 2007 by Bugattibuilder.com :: Disclaimer :: Contact :: Advertising possibilities

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group