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Is 50133 actually 50144?
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1469		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Is 50133 actually 50144?
Image

Greetings Wiki contributors.

In Andy Rheault's American Register this car is said to be 50133 fitted with engine and coachwork from 50144. By the time Sandy Leith published his Register in 2003 new research suggests this car is now, and has always been, 50144 with engine no.34.

To the best of my knowledge the chassis number was only revealed once the car had been in America for quite a while, certainly Col. Giles never mentioned any chassis numbers in Bugantics. It seems reasonable that it was in the US during the 1950s that the confusion arose.

But I am not comfortable with changing information on Wiki ; please debate this amongst yourselves and if you conclude this to be 50144, then perhaps Wiki can be so ammended.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner
Author:  bugatti69 [ Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
Bugatti Trust Photo Archive Album 14 - Type 50: > 50133

To see #183, #192A, #193, #216 at #219, on: http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/photogra ... ?g2_page=4 and http://www.bugatti-trust.co.uk/photogra ... ?g2_page=5

Sandy Leith published his Register in 2003 new research suggests this car is now, and has always been, 50144 with engine no.34.

Conway called in Magnum:
the first owner of the 57133 was Leon Fabre in Paris.
the first owner of the 57144 was Bartifaut

Was T50 of the coll Gilles the property of Fabre or Bartifaut?

If the engine and the body are of the 57144 and that it there not of connection with Fabre, it appears probable to me that they are the 57144 and not 57133.

Except that Bugatti Trust specifies that they are the 57133. Why?

Christian
Author:  Johan Buchner [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
I honestly do not know. Something else I do not know is whether the present coachwork was the first body on this car. If the body is by Corsica (apparently the second body, the open "Le Mans" type tourer was by them as well) then I doubt if it was the first ; if it was done by Van Vooren, as Sandy Leith believes, then it might be.

As to whether this car should be 50133 or 50144, it depends, I suppose, on which source you find the most trustworthy, the Bugatti Trust's research or the 2003 American Register.

Best of luck trying to figure out how to update Wiki. As for me, I have no advise to give.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner
Author:  copperkettle [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
Dear Johan and Christian:

I thought it worthy of note that the first mention of the Col. Giles T50 that I have found anywhere is in the Jack Lemon Burton purchase and sale ledgers. He rarely wrote down chassis numbers and never wrote down Type numbers...if it was a T50, it was a "4.9 litre". The subject car is one of the exceptions: it is listed as "Bugatti 4.9 litre 50144". Lemon Burton imported it from France on January 1, 1937, paying 174 GBP and duty of 43 GBP. He sold it to Giles the same day for 300 GBP, a nice healthy mark-up and the same-day sale implies (to me) that Giles had him looking for a "4.9 litre". .

I am still seeking an explanation for the Conway 50133 attribution, but I am also beginning to feel more and more confident in my feeling that the car is 50144...a position I have maintained for 10 years.

VLM,

Sandy
Author:  bugatti69 [ Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
See: http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/ind ... itle=50144

Christian
Author:  copperkettle [ Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is 50133 actually 50144?
Dear All:

The answer to this question is YES. While I was never able to determine why the chassis number was changed over here in the US, it "evolved" into 50133 during Stanley Levine's ownership. The car is 50144 and Gooding's catalog will contain a comprehensive history of the car, including the story of how the Van Vooren fixed head coupe was modified by Corsica into a drophead coupe, per the order of Col. Giles.

Cheers,

Sandy
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