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Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1801		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  GCL-Wales [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
Picture shows Hamish Moffatt at Oulton Park in 4848 when it was owned by Frank Wall.

4848
A 1926 works car “35TC” fitted with engine no. 120T used in that years Targa Florio. It was sold on a factory invoice dated April 1927 to Leo d’Erlanger in London and has subsequently remained in the UK. Driven by George Eyston with Kaye Don in Brooklands class “D” record-breaking runs in 1927. Then ; Penn-Hughes, R.L. Duller ; who used it Brooklands, Fay Taylour ,and in 1946, Peter Stubberfied. Apart from a geared-up supercharger the car was mechanically standard and became well known and highly successful over the next ten years. Normally run with twin rear wheels and towed behind a type 50 DHC. Fitted with a single-seater body. Used in top-level events until 1957. Sold to Frank Wall who entered Hamish Moffatt in UK VSCC events with several successes. In November, 1981 the car was being offered for sale by London dealer Dan Margulies from his premises in London S.W.7. In 1982 it was sold to Fuad Majzub who reportedly intended to return the car to original specifications but instead restored it retaining Stubberfield’s modifications. It was inherited by son Julian Majzub in 1995. In 2006 Stubberfield was scheduled to drive it at Prescott but was prevented by ill-health.

Wrong
Author:  Uwe [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
"Richard Seaman" race 1980??

Image
Author:  Michael Müller [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
GCL-Wales wrote:
4848
A 1926 works car “35TC” fitted with engine no. 120T used in that years Targa Florio.

Acc. to my knowledge the 1926 works cars for the Targa Florio had been
#4760 (with engine #1)
#4761 (with engine #2)
#4762 (with engine #3)
#4763 (with engine #4)
All registered on 27 March 1926 in the name of Ettore Bugatti Automobiles Molsheim, and all 4 of course T35T unsupercharged.
Author:  Uwe [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
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Author:  GCL-Wales [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
Hugh Conway Snr. in The Bugatti Register and Data Book : "Believed to have been 1926 Targa Bugatti Team Car..."

Moral of the story - never trust Conway ?
Author:  Michael Müller [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
Also from Conway sr., "The Grand Prix Bugatti", Appendix 3, Schedule 1:

Image
Even if Conway wrote "believed to have been" he should be quoted like that, and not "A 1926 works car ... used in that years Targa Florio".

It's always the same, it starts with "rumoured to be", then "believed to be", followed by "reported to be", and finally "is"!
Author:  GCL-Wales [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848
I now realise that I relied on the 1989 (David Sewell) British Register which stated unconditionally "1926 Targa Florio Works Car". In my opinion David is the most reliable Bugatti historian and in this case I incorporated the information into my data-base without checking. This morning I amended the Bugattiregister.com entry for this car by deleting mention of Targa Florio. However, is it possible David knows something we don't ? What does the Bugatti Information Group know ? Does the "Bugantics" editor still watch this site? Does he know whether the car is still listed in the British Bugatti Register and what the entry will state when the 2010 edition is published. Is the car still owned by the Majzub family ?

A former owner has been listed as the moderately well-known George Duller. However there was someone called R.L. Duller who raced a supercharged Bugatti and who is listed in The History of Brooklands. I think it was R.L. Duller who owned 4848.
Author:  Michael Müller [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
Even the less experienced Bugantics know that the 1926 TF cars had been the enlarged "T" version of the T35, but not yet the supercharged "TC" ("B") version. Also the serial 4848 by no means fit into spring 1926, April 1927 fits perfect. The engine number 120T however may date back to fall 1926, although most probably unsupercharged. There was no real logic for works cars with T35B engine in 1926, with the official Grand Prix formula being 1.5 litres only.

If we believe Conway the first T35B was #4825 / #123T in October 1926, however, this is somewhat doubtful. I have no race entry for 4825, and it's hard to believe that this was a "café racer" only. The first T35B's I have are #4806, converted from T35 in March 1927 before sold to August Momberger, and #4815, the T35T sold to the Juneks, which was overhauled and supercharged at Molsheim before being sent by rail to Sicily for the Targa. Any corrections are wellcome of course.
Author:  GCL-Wales [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eaarly 35B
Junek raced a 35B on 16/9/1926. Photo on p. 46 of Bugatti Automobiles in the Czech Lands. Picture published in October 1926.
Author:  Michael Müller [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eaarly 35B
GCL-Wales wrote:
Junek raced a 35B on 16/9/1926.

Ecce Homo hillclimb was on 19 Sep 1926 (16th was Thursday).
Do you mean this photo? It shows the left side of the car, thus no relief valve hole can be seen. I am quite sure that #4815 was delivered as normal T35T and only converted some months later by the factory.

Image
Author:  bugatti69 [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eaarly 35B
Michael Müller wrote:
GCL-Wales wrote:
Junek raced a 35B on 16/9/1926.

Ecce Homo hillclimb was on 19 Sep 1926 (16th was Thursday).


According to my information:
T35T GP (4815) VI° Ecce-Homo, 12th September 1926, Vincenc Junek, 1st

http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/ind ... title=4815
Author:  Michael Müller [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
My files are right on the date, see attached press report.
But they are wrong on the car - the period article reports a "Kompressor-Bugatti".

That means that #4815 was indeed the very first T35B.

Image
Author:  GCL-Wales [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Car 4848 - see newly posted picture.
The photo in the Junek book shows the same car as above from the other side and there is a blow-off valve hole. The date I quoted is from the book.
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