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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Here is a passage from the book of L.G Matthews Jr, Bugatti Yesterday and Today "The Atlantic and Other Articles", Chapter Conversations with René Rieger, page 107 to 111 :

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René is one of few witnesses still living who viewed Jean's twisted car a dozen hours after the fatal accident. Workers from the plant came to transfer the remains of the car to the factory at Molsheim, where the remains were buried in the park for eternity. No one now knows exactly where they are. Robert Stoehr, former head of the repair department for Ettore told me that he perfectly remenbered the moment when the workers brought back the wreckered car to the plant. It was really broken in two lengthwise. During the war, when the Germans occupied the factory, they tried to find the remains of Jean's car, especially the engine, but they found nothing. It is well they did not.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Thanks Scud. All doubts about the car's remains whereabouts have been cleared completely!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Maybe it is still there?

Using new techniques (ground penetrating radar) finding it may be possible.

these remains should be even more valuable than the submerged Brescia from Italy.

And, even more important, it would give us armchair experts (if ever one of us manages to get out of it!) the possibility to make a note of the chassis and other numbers!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:17 am 
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Renting a ground radar is 350 euro / day.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:04 am 
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Herman wrote:
Renting a ground radar is 350 euro / day.

It should be relatively easy to find,If any new buildings had covered it then it would have been found during the work.It would make a poignant memorial to Jean if it were put on display at the schlumph museum.The Timeteam from the UK would perhaps do it as a project free of charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Maybe a project that Bugatti SAS would like to undertake?

They are close, they can use it in their promotion?

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:33 pm 
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That would be great! I mean, what's 350€/day for VAG? That's like what they spend on toilet water or something...

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:44 pm 
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X-Filer wrote:
That would be great! I mean, what's 350€/day for VAG? That's like what they spend on toilet water or something...

The first hurdle to overcome would be the surviving family,then the Hispano people,then perhaps the VW people should it prove to be buried behind the chateau St Jean.I have asked timeteam to consider this project.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 pm 
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Lazarus, can you please explain what "Timeteam" is??

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:00 pm 
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Lazarus wrote:
The first hurdle to overcome would be the surviving family,then the Hispano people,then perhaps the VW people should it prove to be buried behind the chateau St Jean.I have asked timeteam to consider this project.


Why Hispano?

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:40 pm 
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J.J.Horst wrote:
Lazarus, can you please explain what "Timeteam" is??

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/T/timeteam/ , Hispano own the old factory non? We don't know if it was buried behind the chateau,or somewhere behind the factory,my guess is at the back of the chateau St Jean,at the back of the lawn.But this is just where I would have put it.There was a very similar case in england where the land speed record car "Babs" was buried at Pendine sands on the coast after Parry Thomas was killed trying to beat the world land speed record.This car was one of Count Z..........ski's brooklands cars.It was recovered some years ago and now restored it delights enthusiasts whenever it appears.I am not suggesting that the Le Mans Bugatti should be restored,but it is not impossible....


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:10 pm 
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X-Filer wrote:
Why Hispano?

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:13 pm 
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Some remarks:

-Jaap does not know Time Team? Oh no! One of the best programs on Discovery in 1999-2000. With this presenter, (Phil I believe) randomly jumping in trenches where valuable artefact from a distant history were unveiled.

-About searching for the car: Someone would need to get permission from a lot of organisations, including Messier, Volkswagen, the city of Molsheim, the railways, perhaps even more (private) owners of land.

-About restoration: Basicly this is already possible... :)

About the Hispano-Bugatti diesel engines: They were notorious for being overweight, loud, and with lack of power. (and at least 25 years too late.)

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Herman wrote:
Some remarks:

-Jaap does not know Time Team? Oh no! One of the best programs on Discovery in 1999-2000. With this presenter, (Phil I believe) randomly jumping in trenches where valuable artefact from a distant history were unveiled.

-About searching for the car: Someone would need to get permission from a lot of organisations, including Messier, Volkswagen, the city of Molsheim, the railways, perhaps even more (private) owners of land.

-About restoration: Basicly this is already possible... :)

About the Hispano-Bugatti diesel engines: They were notorious for being overweight, loud, and with lack of power. (and at least 25 years too late.)

The railways? I dont think so.It would be right and proper to ask Ettores daughter for her permission it would be nice if the family were to agree,then you start in the grounds of the chateau St Jean [permission from VW] then if nothing there you need messier to agree to a search around the back of the factory [could be under the new car park....]there are no private owners to worry about,Ettore would not have buried it under someone elses garden ! And yes Timeteam is brilliant,they often do sensitive digs,such as the Spitfire in france,where they had the dead pilots brother on site.Ground radar and magnatrometry would avoid unecessary holes everywhere.What would that car be worth today if it had never crashed? £10.000.000 ? I am surprised that it has not been looked for before.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:15 pm 
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Sorry, I had never heard of Time Team, though it may be that I once saw a part of one broadcast.

In my opinion, to do this proper, the Bugatti family should agree first. That is, after finding a bit more info that the car is really burried (and possibly where!); so far we only have the one source from Les Matthews, it would be nice to have a 2nd source. Les does state that it was burried in the park, would that be where the park is now, between the factory and the pavillion?

The Chateau St Jean was not part of the factory, as far as I know. Chances are low that it would be burried there.

Secondly, it would be nice to get this to be a venture without financial gain, so nobody earning $$$ with it. So either get an institution that will display the car once found (eg. the Schlumpf collection), or get some charity to which donate all earnings in case the car is sold.


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