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 Post subject: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:27 pm 
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It's one of the chassis that's been bogling me the most. I can't find anywhere the exact reference to the chassis number for the Type 57C Tank Le Mans which won the 1939 24H du Mans race (and on which Jean Bugatti got killed...).

For example, I've found one source that states it's chassis #57525/2 (at least on the Bugatti Register the 57525 is vacant). On the other hand, on Bugatti Builder photo server, the chassis stated is #57454/2, while the 57474 on the Bugatti Register chassis number is listed as the first 57 Tank car. On the other hand, the 57424/2 chassis number is alocated to the Type 64 Coupe Special prototype... :?:

And last (but not least), the 1244-W5 licence-plated 57C Tank Le Mans appears on the Bugatti Register list of unknown chassis...

Please, could anyone enlighten me on the story of this chassis, I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around this car. Ehat happened to the chassis after the accident?

Questions, questions...

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Cars only needed chassisnumbers when they left the factory or be kept within the factory, but left the country.

In the first case, the chassis number must have ended up with the Pracht Carnets, and be listed with the authorities.

In the second case, the factory just took papers which were in stock (and paid for), took or stamped a chassis plate, and there they went.

This leaves us with just little info on these factory racers and factory demonstrators, which usually shared chassis numbers.

The 39 tank very likely never had a chassis number, but likely an engine number. After the crash the car either was scrapped (likely) or buried (less likely, but rumours persist)

Please all, correct me if I am wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:05 pm 
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[quote="Herman"]
The 39 tank very likely never had a chassis number, but likely an engine number. After the crash the car either was scrapped (likely) or buried (less likely, but rumours persist)

quote]

Herman, please share the details of this fantastic new discovery, the T39 tank, with us!!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:25 am 
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Come on, Jaap. But for your peace: The '39 Tank. Feeling better?

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:55 am 
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The Le Mans car had a license number 1244-W5 (the number was often used). It must have given also a chassis number. My assumption would be 57454.


Last edited by Uwe on Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:30 pm 
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Uwe wrote:
The Le Mans car of June 1939 had a license number 1244-W5 (the number was often used). It must have given also a chassis number. My assumption would be 57454. The Protoype T64 was finished in June 1939, and had the same license number 1244-W5, and had the chassis number 57454.


Not being any kind of expert or knowledgeable people on this subject, I think it could happen but the fact that they're both on the same car could only be a coincidence, no? I mean, one doesn't imply the other...

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Basicly it is a set of paperwork, which states the license plate number and the chassis number.

With the detachable chassis plates it is all too easy to interchange them, and use them for several cars. This saves the factory from spending time and money on paperwork for all cars.

This is also the reason why frame numbers have more meaning than chassis numbers in the Bugatti world. At least for the production cars. The experimental stuff is very complicated, due to the fact that these numbers were not of any interest for the factory, so were not recorded or not used at all. (what do you need a chassis number for?)

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:24 pm 
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:35 pm 
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(what do you need a chassis number for?)[/quote]
Only to keep the armchair experts busy,It is good to have a life as well....


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Herman wrote:
(what do you need a chassis number for?)


What do we need a chassis number database for?

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Because that is all we have. Although the real experts have lists with frame numbers, but are hesitant to release these lists, as they fear this might:

-help con-artists perform their art
-shake the Bugatti community too much
-will cause tremendous financial losses

(tick whichever is appropiate)

Anyhow, chassis numbers are relatively consistant for cars that have been sold. It is just the works racers that can cause problems. Just a handful of (interesting) cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:41 am 
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Herman wrote:
Because that is all we have. Although the real experts have lists with frame numbers, but are hesitant to release these lists, as they fear this might:

-help con-artists perform their art
-shake the Bugatti community too much
-will cause tremendous financial losses

(tick whichever is appropiate)

Anyhow, chassis numbers are relatively consistant for cars that have been sold. It is just the works racers that can cause problems. Just a handful of (interesting) cars.

Isn't the other question what happened with this Le Mans racer after Jean Bugatti
s crash?

I have some idea in my head that the car was later rebuilt, but have no time at the moment to search for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:23 am 
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J.J.Horst wrote:
Herman wrote:
Because that is all we have. Although the real experts have lists with frame numbers, but are hesitant to release these lists, as they fear this might:

-help con-artists perform their art
-shake the Bugatti community too much
-will cause tremendous financial losses

(tick whichever is appropiate)

Anyhow, chassis numbers are relatively consistant for cars that have been sold. It is just the works racers that can cause problems. Just a handful of (interesting) cars.

Isn't the other question what happened with this Le Mans racer after Jean Bugatti
s crash?

I have some idea in my head that the car was later rebuilt, but have no time at the moment to search for it.

I am quite happy with the idea that having lost his best son,Ettore would most likely want the car buried.I just cannot imagine him allowing anyone to rebuild it.One day timeteam will search for it at Molsheim


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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:47 am 
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Time Team!!! Yes, we need them! Lets dig some trenches!

I thought the car was converted into the type 252. (and then being shot at...) :)

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 Post subject: Re: Type 57C Le Mans - chassis number?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:29 am 
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Herman wrote:
Because that is all we have. Although the real experts have lists with frame numbers, but are hesitant to release these lists, as they fear this might:

-help con-artists perform their art
-shake the Bugatti community too much
-will cause tremendous financial losses

(tick whichever is appropiate)

Anyhow, chassis numbers are relatively consistant for cars that have been sold. It is just the works racers that can cause problems. Just a handful of (interesting) cars.


I understand the worries. I wish I had ways to assure none of those is my intention but I guess there is none. Just have to ask you to take my word for all I want is info. I just find it one of the most iconic Bugattis ever (for fortunate and unfortunate reasons alltogether) and it's a shame the info around its origins and whereabouts are shady.

I've never heard anything regarding the 252 was brought from the remais of the 57C Tank. I find it a sad ending for such a car...

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