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 Post subject: Bugatti in Hungary
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 4
Hi all,
Per friendly invitation from Helge Hauk I joined the Wiki.

I'm not the biggest expert on Bugatti cars in Hungary, but I can already see some errors.

T35, #4858; I have a small problem. The picture at the bottom of the page shows Count Antal Esterhazy at the Parad Hillclimb race. BTW there was no such race as the Matra Hillclimb or the Parad Hillclimb. (It is the same race, either referenced as Mátra after the hill where the race took place or as Parád after the city where the race ended).
This event was just a leg of the Magyar Turaut (Hungarian Touring Race) which took place every year between 1925-1930.
Funny thing is the caption of the original picture features a hand-written note, VI/10 - which is a mistake, the 1928 Hungarian Touring Race took place a week later :)
But it is absolutely certain that the guy on the picture is Count Antal Esterhazy.
I think you mixed up this car with 4918

Type 46, 46139 - do you have proof that it was also owned by Walter Delmár? The other guy's correct name must be Rózsahegyi

Also on 30, December, 1926 Salm-Rozsahegyi reported that 3 units of 8-cylinder chassis, bearing numbers 38311, 38310 and 38278 were brought to Hungary...On 14 April, 1927 the company brought chassis no 37248, 37249 and 37250 to Hungary.

István Rózsahegyi was a business partner of Count Herman Salm. According to Tivadar Zichy's autobiography Rózsahegyi and Salm were also secret lovers.

Salm was not the first Bugatti dealer in Hungary. Bugatti was first advertised by the short-living Motor Automobil Rt in 1923.

Regards,
Pal Negyesi


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti in Hungary
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Thank you Pal Negyesi for this information.

Wiki was updated.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti in Hungary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Bergen NH (NL)
Pal is right of course. One week later Esterhazy raced at the Semmering where the "3" on the radiator was still visible.

There’s a lot more wrong data. Acc. to my files Tivadar Zichy had 2 T35, a C (#4916) and a B (#4858). Strange enough both cars had been delivered together to importer Salm in May 1928 for Zichy. Therefore an accurate race log for 1928/29 is difficult to establish as often the entered class is not mentioned.

In any case the Svabhegy entry in 1927 is wrong, as none of the 2 cars was delivered then. Zichy indeed started there in a Bugatti, but I believe this was the T35 #4828. I doubt that this car ever was owned by Károly Haupt, who was only an employee of Bugatti importer Salm. But Pal for sure will clear up this matter.

The entries in 1930 and 1931 had been with the T35C #4916, as #4858 since 7 Dec 1929 belonged to Laszlo Hartmann. His last race with #4858 was at the AVUS in 1932 where in lap 2 he cracked his engine. So one week later for the Eifelrennen he used his T37A. In September then he bought Hans Lewy’s T51, which he raced until 1936.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti in Hungary
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:48 am
Posts: 2
Please do not forget my greatgrandmother's brother Kalman Barsony :)
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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti in Hungary
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 4
Regarding Kalman Barsony's Bugatti: there is precious little known about it. Based on the number plate, this was still registered to the distributor (Salm-Rozsahegyi) in 1930.

As Helge Hauk (Austrian Bugatti club) is gently pushing me, I'm trying to put together everything on Hungarian Bugatti cars. Problem is, my information is usually based on number plates, which is not much help when it comes to chassis/engine numbers. I'm trying to match these as much as I can.

Do you know how can I get in touch with Peter Lovesey? It seems he owned a Bugatti T44 which was previously in Hungary


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti in Hungary
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:48 am
Posts: 2
Some new photos about Barsony's Bugatti
Image
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 Post subject: 43212, 46139
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 4
Hi
Regarding T43, chassis no 43212. I have a problem. I looked at the wiki. It says former number plate: BA 835 which belonged to Walter Delmár.
Yes, BA 835 was raced by Walter Delmár but it wasn't his Bugatti! This Bugatti belonged to a certain dr Max Sterhi (both 1934 and 1937 registers show him as the owner), who lived down the road from Delmár.
Delmár had another Bugatti, with the number plate BF447.

Anyone knows why and how 43212 and BA835 and Delmár were joined together?

Also there's 46139 which also appears in the database as a former Delmár car. However it can't be BF447 - this number plate was issued around 1935-1936. Not to mention the fact that Mr Delmár did not have a Bugatti registered on his name either in 1930 or in 1934.


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 Post subject: Bugatti imports by Velox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 4
Hi
There's not a single entry in the database which says - imported by Velox Autokereskedelmi Kft.
However Velox did bring in a number of Bugatti cars to Hungary between 1924 and 1926. Here's one from 1924 at the Schwabenberg race. At the wheel, Kálmán Farkas, director of Velox, his navigator is Viktor Szmick. And the car carries Hungarian number plate.
Attachment:
szmick_farkas1924_svabhegy.jpg
szmick_farkas1924_svabhegy.jpg [ 33.62 KiB | Viewed 3673 times ]


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