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Argentina Bugatti
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2183		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  Bugwrench [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
Herman wrote:
They did play with the thought of buying 50 Pur Sangs, however, and set up a racing series.


I can not possibly believe this. Can you please mention the source of this information?
Bugwrench
Author:  Herman [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
I read this in a magazine some time ago. I have no idea which one. It could be "journalistic freedom"
Author:  onebugatti [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Strippers and the 50 Bugatti night
Herman wrote:
I read this in a magazine some time ago. I have no idea which one. It could be "journalistic freedom"



I remember that rumor - or starting it - when we were all drunk at the Geneva Auto Show and the new Bugatti company was trying to be friendly to Pur Sang owners. I can confirm now, sober , that it was a lie .

In addition, we all went home alone and there were no strippers studying law, and begging us for a better life. Although we could have promised them that...

in our dreams having the new Bugatti Company take an interest in our own passions with a suggestion of supporting a racing team of vintage Bugs was....well..err ....ahhhh...... duh ...... :wink:
Author:  Michael Müller [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
Udolahr wrote:
so how can a "look-a-lïkes" get Bugatti papers ?

By faking identities! Some time ago a PS car was on offer at eBay, it had a serial number of an existing (real) T35B. Part of the photo series had been Argentinian registration papers "issued" in the 70's. Any more questions...?

7 years ago I contacted PS asking about their experience of road registration. The reply was "We have sold more than thirty cars and nobody had problems".

As a matter of fact, to get a PS road registered, you need to clone an identity. Years ago this was possible without "original" paperwork, but nowadays the technical authorities (TÜV, MOT, RDW, etc.) are aware of the problem, and more and more they insist on previous registration documents (titles).

All serials of "disappeared" cars meanwhile are hijacked, as a result numbers of existing cars are used, and also those of (disappeared) T35A. "History" then reads "converted to T35B in 195x" or similar. There are reports that even blank numbers are used.
Author:  Herman [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Strippers and the 50 Bugatti night
onebugatti wrote:
Herman wrote:
I read this in a magazine some time ago. I have no idea which one. It could be "journalistic freedom"



I remember that rumor - or starting it - when we were all drunk at the Geneva Auto Show and the new Bugatti company was trying to be friendly to Pur Sang owners. I can confirm now, sober , that it was a lie .

In addition, we all went home alone and there were no strippers studying law, and begging us for a better life. Although we could have promised them that...

in our dreams having the new Bugatti Company take an interest in our own passions with a suggestion of supporting a racing team of vintage Bugs was....well..err ....ahhhh...... duh ...... :wink:


This one journalist was less drunk then you were all then, or was better trained...
Author:  onebugatti [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Identity Theft
Michael Müller wrote:
Udolahr wrote:
so how can a "look-a-lïkes" get Bugatti papers ?

By faking identities! Some time ago .........


This is a common problem with road registering any car built up with parts. There is no way to road register a 2008 Bugatti Replica/Bitza without an already existing number or registration. I had one T37 , # 210 , which was a replica. It had real brakes, the real stopped there. It had a real number but the car had no connection to the number. That identity is to a car that was destroyed , so it is a number in the air forever. No difference if 30 cars share that number , they all can not lay claim to it - still it belongs to no one. In the case of BC37, it belongs to one guy - case closed. Those such examples above , like all have to be recorded in ledgers and shared - then everyone knows the warning which is a guide for the truth, likely always needing updating. A problems would be if a multi-numbered car is stolen, then the other users could face legal issues - maybe even criminal issues that would cost to resolve.

Many cars have these number problems just to get them on the road - not more than that reason, others try to trick with identity theft . As time passes, the cars fall into hands of people who think that it's possible to concrete an identity where it doesn't belong , for profit . Example's are many - there are no borders on this. It's like sub-prime mortgages, junk bonds, or banking products - better read the fine print and ask logical questions. There are enough experts out there now.

We are entering an era of great values on historical documentation, so WIKI and this site is a host of receiving info that can be used as a guide. We should all contribute to the system of recording information. The problem is..... knowledge is power and much is not shared. In addition, it's none of other people business on what numbers are on which cars, it's just when they change hands and people search for truth that S...hits the fan. Of course we have the right to attack if our own real car numbers are used on car that clearly doesn't have claim to that number. But what about three cars using a number from a destroyed car? Who has claim, the first user?

I see nothing wrong with road registering a Bitza - so road registering a PS is precisely the same - in fact it's more straight than the fog of the bitza's. What is a bitza anyway, real parts of touring cars on a replica frame? The frame is the only core of a real Bugatti, that FIA 3 out of 5 formula is crap to me, and that is the door that was opened for so many fake ID's. Bugatti built only so many frames, and not more - and those are the real bugattis, all else are replicas- period.

I saw a Fiat frame modified into a T40 frame, done perfectly. Same week I saw a T40 chassis plate on E-bay. In 30 years I am sure the chassis plate will be on the Fiat , so it goes. A fool and his money are soon parted.

It's not the responsibility of PS to road register cars - it's up to the owner. How the owner does that is his own business. He deals with the risk, but should not have any reward other than the road registering bonus. If some system is there to contribute to the truth in an orderly way then it's the best you can hope for . Then we can all agree to one ( GRW) Golden Rule Warning - Caveat Emptor.
Author:  Udolahr [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
so all this PS cars are a ticking time bomb . Up to the day where is a big accident with somebody killed .And the investigation will start . And if you sell something in europa as a look like and not as a car to drive at the street , today this is even more krimminal .With the right attorney, and bingo .
Author:  onebugatti [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dirty Harry
[/quote]
Udolahr wrote:
so all this PS cars are a ticking time bomb . Up to the day where is a big accident with somebody killed .And the investigation will start . And if you sell something in europa as a look like and not as a car to drive at the street , today this is even more krimminal .With the right attorney, and bingo .



An interesting Socialist view. I once drove in Italy on a rally. I was with EK. He was driving fast. In front of us at 200 meters - a Brescia running flat out , a dirt road, and a steep hill. We had front brakes, the brescia had none. At a turn the Brescia went over the cliff. Guy was lucky, he hit a tree and it stopped him. EK didn't flinch, nor did he stop. I was worried, but all the other drivers stopped quickly. Later that night, I asked ''why didn't you stop to help?'' He said to me, the guy was driving a Brescia with no front brakes too fast - he should know better.

It took me some years to realize EK was right. It was a true Bugatti spirit actually.

Accidents happen when driving cars - bitzas, replicas or originals.

''A man has to know his limitations'' - as Detective Harry Callahan said.
Author:  Udolahr [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
you are right , but today we have a new global situation , especially in the EU . It is amazing what a lawyer can do today . For example . I had a small company in China printing for me Bugatti floormatts . After some time the company got in to trouble about it and stopt it .
Author:  onebugatti [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: floor mats
Udolahr wrote:
you are right , but today we have a new global situation , especially in the EU . It is amazing what a lawyer can do today . For example . I had a small company in China printing for me Bugatti floormatts . After some time the company got in to trouble about it and stopt it .


Next time spell it with two G's and one T.
Author:  Udolahr [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
Buggati :? :? :?
Author:  Herman [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
I was officially forbidden to issue Bugattibuilder hats. They allow me the website, as long as it is non-commercial.

How is that with Pur Sang?
Author:  Michael Müller [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Identity Theft
onebugatti wrote:
It's not the responsibility of PS to road register cars - it's up to the owner.

Responsibility - no, marketing - yes!
When buying a new Toyota you get a set of floormats as gift, when buying a PS you may get something else. Floormats are not needed to register a car...
The seller (owner) in my example above was from the US, do you really think he was responsible for that Argentinian registration title...?

For the rest I FULLY agree with your posting.
Author:  Lazarus [ Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Identity Theft
Michael Müller wrote:
onebugatti wrote:
It's not the responsibility of PS to road register cars - it's up to the owner.

Responsibility - no, marketing - yes!
When buying a new Toyota you get a set of floormats as gift, when buying a PS you may get something else. Floormats are not needed to register a car...
The seller (owner) in my example above was from the US, do you really think he was responsible for that Argentinian registration title...?

For the rest I FULLY agree with your posting.

The PS that caused problems in the UK had papers from PS indicating that the car was a restored original.At least that is what the owner told me.he said that he had insisted on papers.
Author:  bietbert [ Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Argentina Bugatti
I hate what the Argentinians are building, they are incorrect in every sense, the engines don't have at all the characteristics like a Bugatti engine should work and they sound like tin dustbins. On every angle you have a look on you can find something that let you wonder and the worsed of all is that they are of bad quality and in that case really dangerous.
Even Bugattis can be dangerous when they aren't fixed correctly and when they will be driven like mad. But this cars work and they have an unbelievable performance and drivabilyty for a design of the early 1920th.
On the other hand it is understandable why people admire these Bugattis espescially GP cars so that they want to own one. But the problem is that even if you have some sparemoney, the cars are now in an astronomical region that hardly anybody can afford. And simply there is the place where PS cars are settled. When you buy one you can fullfill your dream, and that a tight bit closer than with a Beetle- or Teal lookalike. Or you can feel like a rich chap, and with a PS you have a bill to join their partys.
The only thing that I can't understand is that there are of course Bugattis that are cheaper as a PS. So if you are really an enthusiast, and you have the money to buy a PS there is a way to get a Bugatti with more sense of everything.

bietbert
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