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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:47 am 
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Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Posts: 7
J.J.Horst wrote:
This was discussed elsewhere as well, the front axle is forged, not cast!

this looks a great front axle Marek
may i ask is it the good cast iron which has spherical-graphite?

spherical graphite iron is quite hard to find in Australia
we buy s.g.iron metal in bars at Flocast
really neat it allows cast iron which doesn't crack
since it is able to bend somewhat


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:54 am 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 5:38 am
Posts: 7
Marek wrote:
This is a cast steel 42CrMo4 subjected to normalized and hardened at 35 HRC.


your front axle looks brilliant and a great effort
thanks for a reply to my question
certainly 42CrMo4 is a very good steel
this maybe twice the strength of original


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
twice ? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Posts: 338
tyr0 wrote:
Marek wrote:
This is a cast steel 42CrMo4 subjected to normalized and hardened at 35 HRC.


your front axle looks brilliant and a great effort
thanks for a reply to my question
certainly 42CrMo4 is a very good steel
this maybe twice the strength of original


Please do not be mistaken about the quality of the steels Molsheim used.
One of the favourite steels that Molsheim used was AD3 made by the famous French factory Aubert Duval. This company is still in business and still produces high quality steels for special applications.
AD3 is a low carbon case hardening steel that Molsheim used for front axles and steering arms etc. in unhardened condition and for a lot of other components in hardened condition like the rollerbearing crankshaft components. Do not underestimate the quality of these crank parts as I know several original crankshafts still running after more than 80 years.
A typical composition of AD3 is C=0.15%, 0.55% Mn, 0.8% Ni and 3.0Cr.
Strength is roughly equal to 42CrMo4 so most certainly not half as you suggested. 42CrMo4 is good choice for a cast axle but would be an unsuitable choice for the production of an hollow axle made in the traditional way because of the forging involved. The high carbon content means the steel is through hardening under air cooling and that is what you want to avoid as that happens multiple times during the forging process.
Bugwrench


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
tests with original Molsheim parts did show AD3 has about 85 kg/mm²


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 5:38 am
Posts: 7
Bugwrench wrote:
tyr0 wrote:
Marek wrote:
This is a cast steel 42CrMo4 subjected to normalized and hardened at 35 HRC.


your front axle looks brilliant and a great effort
thanks for a reply to my question
certainly 42CrMo4 is a very good steel
this maybe twice the strength of original


Please do not be mistaken about the quality of the steels Molsheim used.
One of the favourite steels that Molsheim used was AD3 made by the famous French factory Aubert Duval. This company is still in business and still produces high quality steels for special applications.
AD3 is a low carbon case hardening steel that Molsheim used for front axles and steering arms etc. in unhardened condition and for a lot of other components in hardened condition like the rollerbearing crankshaft components. Do not underestimate the quality of these crank parts as I know several original crankshafts still running after more than 80 years.
A typical composition of AD3 is C=0.15%, 0.55% Mn, 0.8% Ni and 3.0Cr.
Strength is roughly equal to 42CrMo4 so most certainly not half as you suggested. 42CrMo4 is good choice for a cast axle but would be an unsuitable choice for the production of an hollow axle made in the traditional way because of the forging involved. The high carbon content means the steel is through hardening under air cooling and that is what you want to avoid as that happens multiple times during the forging process.
Bugwrench


Molsheim steel as you say and the history of steel products for axles that will not snap or crack.

most kind you explain axle forging steel is malleable to heat several times so not to harden during the process of forging.

i know Rolls Royce made chassis of nickel steel into the 1930's.
and Silver Ghost mains are hollow as the crank is built of pieces.

Yes roller bearings for the crankshaft are great to last so long. after all Bugatti cars are keen to run full throttle.

an old Daimler veteran i restored has brake drums that bend if you pry them which at least is not the usual cast iron cracking
and you can bend the drums back to true again if they distort.


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:16 am
Posts: 15
Marek wrote:
PLEASE REMOVE THIS TOPIC FROM FORUM.



Why ?
I've just finished reading it and found it most interesting, especially the discussions about Bugatti's steels.


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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
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Last edited by Marek on Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axel front creating
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 642
I think I understand what you mean, and partly agree. But I think if you look further, most forum members are nice and willing to help if they have the required expertise. For the rest, this forum is much like the real world. Either live with it or be gone. I am always sorry to see members leave this place of common enthousiasm and interest, especially members who really build and recreate like you Marek.

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