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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
Udolahr wrote:
You did not answer the question , what car are you driving for every day ?


Why do you want to know :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
all the people I know who are able to design and program an ems , drive the same kind of cars . :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
Udolahr wrote:
all the people I know who are able to design and program an ems , drive the same kind of cars . :wink:

I guess that I'm an exception.
But you must be more precise, the all year going to work car, the long distance all year car, the beginning and end of summer but for sure not winter car, the midsummer favourite or whatever classic or real old-timer? Or the test cars that I'm driving during day time and also afterwards (sorry, can't give any info over here as my employer wouldn't appreciate). :?

So what are the kind of cars EMS people drive :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
I'd say you have the answer just given .


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
It makes that job much more interesting if you are car nuts but we have also (few)exceptions. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
I think you know , it is not a problem today to connect any engine if 1 or 20 cylinders with an ems .

http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/html/ ... sport.html

8860 Sequentiell Motorsport für 1 - 16 Zylinder Motoren


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:30 am 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
Udolahr wrote:
I think you know , it is not a problem today to connect any engine if 1 or 20 cylinders with an ems .

http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/html/ ... sport.html

8860 Sequentiell Motorsport für 1 - 16 Zylinder Motoren


Just ask them on which 16 cylinder engine they have tested it.

It might work for small engines that you prepare for race cars with huge compromises on drivability, emissions and start-ability but for sure not something you want to use on a road car.
Also you have to check if the Bugatti engine is a direct injection or not and if it has piezo, or solenoid injectors.
For the piezo it needs totally different drive voltages and even some solenoid injectors work with increased voltages.
Going out of existing maps you will for sure lack of power or and burn some engines before coming to something than might run.
Also I can't find any knock sensor or knock control description.
Seen the size of the Galibier engine it has for sure at least 2, most probably 4 of these sensors.
How would you run correct spark values without this?
The Galibier engine also for sure has more than 1 Electrical throttle body but I can't find the necessary outputs.
It has more than one turbocharger that needs to be controlled.
This is not an electrical house installation where you switch 5 bulbs with one switch. :lol:
I's not only the lack of these inputs and outputs but also the required processor to manage all these separate information what is most probably missing.
I'm sure that I can continue with this list till lunch time.
Last but not least that system does not contain any OBD and without that it could not be used legally on modern cars.
I'm sure that with some effort it would run on a 1980 Jaguar as a good set of carburetors and an old fashion ignition system would also do the job on that one.

This is my opinion but I suggest that you just give it a try.

Good luck :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
minime wrote:
Udolahr wrote:
I think you know , it is not a problem today to connect any engine if 1 or 20 cylinders with an ems .

http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/html/ ... sport.html

8860 Sequentiell Motorsport für 1 - 16 Zylinder Motoren


Just ask them on which 16 cylinder engine they have tested it.

It might work for small engines that you prepare for race cars with huge compromises on drivability, emissions and start-ability but for sure not something you want to use on a road car.
Also you have to check if the Bugatti engine is a direct injection or not and if it has piezo, or solenoid injectors.
For the piezo it needs totally different drive voltages and even some solenoid injectors work with increased voltages.
Going out of existing maps you will for sure lack of power or and burn some engines before coming to something than might run.
Also I can't find any knock sensor or knock control description.
Seen the size of the Galibier engine it has for sure at least 2, most probably 4 of these sensors.
How would you run correct spark values without this?
The Galibier engine also for sure has more than 1 Electrical throttle body but I can't find the necessary outputs.
It has more than one turbocharger that needs to be controlled.
This is not an electrical house installation where you switch 5 bulbs with one switch. :lol:
I's not only the lack of these inputs and outputs but also the required processor to manage all these separate information what is most probably missing.
I'm sure that I can continue with this list till lunch time.
Last but not least that system does not contain any OBD and without that it could not be used legally on modern cars.
I'm sure that with some effort it would run on a 1980 Jaguar as a good set of carburetors and an old fashion ignition system would also do the job on that one.

This is my opinion but I suggest that you just give it a try.

Good luck :lol:

Don't you first need the 120.000 euros for a Galibier engine?.............and maybe 20.000 euros for the EMS that goes with it?


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:49 am 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
Lazarus wrote:
minime wrote:
Udolahr wrote:
I think you know , it is not a problem today to connect any engine if 1 or 20 cylinders with an ems .

http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/html/ ... sport.html

8860 Sequentiell Motorsport für 1 - 16 Zylinder Motoren


Just ask them on which 16 cylinder engine they have tested it.

It might work for small engines that you prepare for race cars with huge compromises on drivability, emissions and start-ability but for sure not something you want to use on a road car.
Also you have to check if the Bugatti engine is a direct injection or not and if it has piezo, or solenoid injectors.
For the piezo it needs totally different drive voltages and even some solenoid injectors work with increased voltages.
Going out of existing maps you will for sure lack of power or and burn some engines before coming to something than might run.
Also I can't find any knock sensor or knock control description.
Seen the size of the Galibier engine it has for sure at least 2, most probably 4 of these sensors.
How would you run correct spark values without this?
The Galibier engine also for sure has more than 1 Electrical throttle body but I can't find the necessary outputs.
It has more than one turbocharger that needs to be controlled.
This is not an electrical house installation where you switch 5 bulbs with one switch. :lol:
I's not only the lack of these inputs and outputs but also the required processor to manage all these separate information what is most probably missing.
I'm sure that I can continue with this list till lunch time.
Last but not least that system does not contain any OBD and without that it could not be used legally on modern cars.
I'm sure that with some effort it would run on a 1980 Jaguar as a good set of carburetors and an old fashion ignition system would also do the job on that one.

This is my opinion but I suggest that you just give it a try.

Good luck :lol:

Don't you first need the 120.000 euros for a Galibier engine?.............and maybe 20.000 euros for the EMS that goes with it?



1200 according to Udo's supplier :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:56 am
Posts: 82
So what is the going rate for a Veyron Vitesse engine (including EMS!)?

I would like to put one (maybe two) in my Powerboat!

It seems to me that 120k is a low price for a Galibier engine?


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:20 am 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
1200 according to Udo's supplier :mrgreen:[/quote]

Correction,

The Veyron is direct injection, so not possible to drive the injectors with that controller.
It has no knock sensors but ion sense detection for knock and misfire. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:56 am
Posts: 82
Sorry for the confusion, with "rate" I ment price.

So how much would a 1200HP Veyron Vitesse engine cost me if I would go to the factory?

Udo; do you buy engines directly from Bugatti SAS?


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
first , it is a nice dream to think you can get this engine for 120 000 . In the time the Jaguar XJ40 was a new car , I payd half the car price in Coventry for the powertrain only . This EMS is an example , we are not using it . We do it with aircraft engines , so what is a car engine ? This royale is not the main project , alongside project .


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
SHOlmes , do not go to the factore and do not ask SAS , there are better ways .


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 Post subject: Re: Royale Progress
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 114
Udolahr wrote:
first , it is a nice dream to think you can get this engine for 120 000 . In the time the Jaguar XJ40 was a new car , I payd half the car price in Coventry for the powertrain only . This EMS is an example , we are not using it . We do it with aircraft engines , so what is a car engine ? This royale is not the main project , alongside project .


Original Veyron setup are 2 separate ECU's, one per cylinder bank both synchronized one to the other. That's quite difficult to find in aftermarket but I'm impatient to hear what your system choice will be.
As I'm working in development I know that I never know everything. I'm willing to learn and I learn every day something new. :D


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