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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:13 pm 
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770-W0 (in the environment of Paris)
Image

Image


Last edited by Uwe on Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:57 am
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Have always thought there is no reason to believe that Bugatti modified an existing motorcycle as a mule for his type 68 engine. The bike's design is so unusual it has all the hallmarks of an EB design. Hints of Vincent or Greeves leading link front suspension.

In the past I have telephoned the Bugatti Trust but found their attitude less than helpful. Perhaps someone in the inner circle could phone and ask if they have drawings of this motorcycle. Would love to see them !


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:41 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
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Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
As for the type 70: BT claims to have a drawing of it, indicating "type 70".

I really wished they provided easier access to their archive...

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Location: Vienne France
Herman wrote:
As for the type 70: BT claims to have a drawing of it, indicating "type 70".

I really wished they provided easier access to their archive...

Here is one pattern for the mythical type 70.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:44 am 
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Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
How big is it?

Any idea what it is? Seems like a cover of some kind of carter?

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:29 pm 
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Location: Vienne France
J.J.Horst wrote:
How big is it?

Any idea what it is? Seems like a cover of some kind of carter?

about 400 mm.Yes it seems to be a rear end for a small engine,


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:02 am 
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Location: New Anzac on Sea
As a committed 'one-tracker' as well as a Bugatti 4 wheel enthusiast I find the idea of a Bugatti motorcycle enthralling.

The photograph taken from the front with those intriguing forks and stylish handlebars makes the motorcycle look very clean and purposeful. Not quite so successful from the side view. But those forks are interesting...looks like a central enclosed spring or damper vaguely in the early American style, but as for the curved fork legs, well, that looks almost veteran and from the angle they could almost be short trailing links. Actually they remind me vaguely of the Wolseley Giro Car. The front 3/4 view enlarges quite well in Photoshop and there appears to be a sort of quadrant at the end of the curved fork leg which itself could be pivoted just at the base of the steering head. How on earth does it all work? Oh to be able to view the engine! Is that a radiator up front? there looks to be a small filler cap on the offside (UK!). To misquote Wallace and Grommit..."It's like no motorcycle I've ever seen Grommit".

Interesting that the cyclemotor was an interest developed by that other idiosyncratic Frenchman, Gabriel Voisin with his Moto Fly. Not quite so complex as Bugatti's solution but a total engine/rear wheel/ tyre and fuel tank replacement for an ordinary pushbike designed much earlier in 1919. Oh, and as the editor adds to Sandy Skinner's pithy article about the Type 72 engine -
"Interestingly, the two-stroke Mini-Motor was designed by Vincent Piatti who had worked in Bugatti's pre-war and wartime Paris design department after graduating as an engineer. At the end of the war he returned to Italy and created this really simple cyclemotor, ideal for post-war conditions there, which was later licence-built in England by Trojan."


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Jon Dudley wrote:
As a committed 'one-tracker' as well as a Bugatti 4 wheel enthusiast I find the idea of a Bugatti motorcycle enthralling.

The photograph taken from the front with those intriguing forks and stylish handlebars makes the motorcycle look very clean and purposeful. Not quite so successful from the side view. But those forks are interesting...looks like a central enclosed spring or damper vaguely in the early American style, but as for the curved fork legs, well, that looks almost veteran and from the angle they could almost be short trailing links. Actually they remind me vaguely of the Wolseley Giro Car. The front 3/4 view enlarges quite well in Photoshop and there appears to be a sort of quadrant at the end of the curved fork leg which itself could be pivoted just at the base of the steering head. How on earth does it all work? Oh to be able to view the engine! Is that a radiator up front? there looks to be a small filler cap on the offside (UK!). To misquote Wallace and Grommit..."It's like no motorcycle I've ever seen Grommit".

Interesting that the cyclemotor was an interest developed by that other idiosyncratic Frenchman, Gabriel Voisin with his Moto Fly. Not quite so complex as Bugatti's solution but a total engine/rear wheel/ tyre and fuel tank replacement for an ordinary pushbike designed much earlier in 1919. Oh, and as the editor adds to Sandy Skinner's pithy article about the Type 72 engine -
"Interestingly, the two-stroke Mini-Motor was designed by Vincent Piatti who had worked in Bugatti's pre-war and wartime Paris design department after graduating as an engineer. At the end of the war he returned to Italy and created this really simple cyclemotor, ideal for post-war conditions there, which was later licence-built in England by Trojan."

Well here is the engine as fitted into the car.It would be good to see how they fitted it into the bike ! The patterns for this engine are now with an enthusiaste who hope to build a new engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:16 am 
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Location: New Anzac on Sea
My word it looks purposeful Jean. I suppose a 'bike could have been shaft driven but that would have made the whole thing rather long with the car-type gearbox shown. FNs, Indians, Pierces, Nimbuses (or ae) all coped with an inline 4 quite successfully utilising a foot or tank mounted hand change set-up...as did Vauxhall with their unique motorcycle so it would have posed no problem to Ettore. Although when I think about it the Sunbeam S7 had a proper bellhousing with car-type clutch - only two cylinders in-line though. Given that so far nobody seems to be able to identify the frame and forks of the prototype can we assume it came from the pen of EB himself...if so do drawings/patents survive? particularly for that interesting front end.

Jean, if anyone succeeds in building that engine...it would be a major coup to construct a motorcycle...or two...what a prospect!

Do we have any examples of EBs interest in motorcycles generally?...tricycling excepted! Popular manufacturers like Peugeot designed their own range of motorcycles but it doesn't seem too common with top-of-the-range pre-war car constructors. The reverse seems to have happened however with Brough Superior, although rather like their beautifully assembled motorcycles, the cars were an amalgam of proprietary parts rather than uniquely designed components.

Sorry if I'm straying too far from Bugatti matters!


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