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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Lazarus wrote:
As an owner of vintage motorcycles and ex owner of a Koehler-Escoffier of 1936,I am obviously interested to know who made the motorcycle used to test the T68b motor.The engine is not at all clear in this photo,but the motorcycle is very clear and not known to me or my french m/c friends.It appears to have late hydraulic forks rather than the prewar type.Which seem almost curved or is this my eyes playing me up? The handlebars also seem strange.Could Ettore have designed and had built the entire bike?

One source says that the motorbike was really designed by Bugatti himself!

Probably only to be proven otherwise when somebody finds a bike that looks exactly the same! I must have a motorbike almanac somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:09 pm 
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J.J.Horst wrote:
Herman wrote:
Image

Image

Image

Last picture: Would that be 370cc? I doubt it...

Also, in a Bugantics, there is a coupling that connects 4 type 69 engines together. Supposedly being the type 70.


The last picture is of (I believe) the T65, which is a 50cc bicycle engine. In some publications, this is erroneously called the T72, but it obviously is not. See:

http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue19/bikes.htm and
http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue29/t72.htm.

The Type 70 was an X-configuration aero engine, probably 16 cylinder, 18.5 litre.

The bicycle engine as shown here and called T72 is indeed a T72.
The drawing in my possesion says: Project T72 and is dated 12-02-1943
The T72 should not be confused with the T72A which I guess is the engine shown in the pictures on Jaap's website.
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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Here is the carburettor pattern and camdrive casing pattern for the T72.T68 camdrive at left.Compare the carburettor pattern with the carburettor in Japps photos.Surely this is not the same as the above photo? Is that not the T69?
Attachment:
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IMG_3438.JPG [ 133.53 KiB | Viewed 6658 times ]


Attachments:
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IMG_4116.JPG [ 74.22 KiB | Viewed 6658 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:03 am 
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Sorry, I have lost the plot (as you say in English). What is a type 69 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:52 am 
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Desiderata wrote:
Sorry, I have lost the plot (as you say in English). What is a type 69 ?

Read the small print under the photo of the bicycle photo above.Type 69.The engine is vertical not horizontal as on T72.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:01 am 
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According to the Bugstti Trust there is no such thing as a type 69.
Also they say type 70 was design to join four type 68 engines (and NOT type 69 as stated above).


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:01 am 
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In my opinion we have the following:

T65: 50cc bike engine, and the one in the drawing
T66: Transmission / drive system for the Bugatti Airplane
T67: V16 aero engine
T68 (A, B): 350 - 360cc automobile (engine)
T69: Unknown
T70: 18.5 litre aero engine
T71: Big Marine engine
T72: 12.6cc bicicle engine (difference between T72 A and B, I believe the first was 10.6 cc

The race car using 4 T68 engines is indeed known, as a sketch only I believe. There is no type number for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:10 am 
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Please what is your source for type 70 information. BT clearly states 1942 transmission project. But BT wrong on numerous occasions.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Image

T72

Image

T69

Image

T69

Info I have :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:01 pm 
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gerrit wrote:
Image

T72

Image

T69

Image

T69

Info I have :wink:

Very interesting,the front forks are curved like on the motorcycle used for testing the T72 motor.We can see perhaps why....this gives more space between the wheel and the motor.Was this the same as the bigger brother?


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Lazarus wrote:
gerrit wrote:
Image

T69

Very interesting,the front forks are curved like on the motorcycle used for testing the T72 motor.We can see perhaps why....this gives more space between the wheel and the motor.Was this the same as the bigger brother?


As I said before, the drawing does not show T69, but T65. The text is wrong in another aspect as well, this 50cc engine has no supercharger. Can you see one in the drawing?

The bend in the front fork, together with the angle, determine the stability of the bicycle (or motorcycle). These are not ment to give more room for engine (or feet!)

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:01 pm 
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J.J.Horst wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
gerrit wrote:
Image

T69

Very interesting,the front forks are curved like on the motorcycle used for testing the T72 motor.We can see perhaps why....this gives more space between the wheel and the motor.Was this the same as the bigger brother?


As I said before, the drawing does not show T69, but T65. The text is wrong in another aspect as well, this 50cc engine has no supercharger. Can you see one in the drawing?

The bend in the front fork, together with the angle, determine the stability of the bicycle (or motorcycle). These are not ment to give more room for engine (or feet!)

If the supercharger is indeed the "size of a matchbox" as it says in the text then you might find it difficult to see no?


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:32 pm 
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There's just the carburettor, no supercharger or supercharger-drive. See the T72 engine, which is much smalle in cc, but quite bulkier in appearance!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Agreed, engine in drawing not supercharged.

The Bugatti Trust gallery captions the above drawing as type 72.

English BOC Data Book gives type 72 as supercharged.

Likely explanation : drawing shows 1940 type 65 study for single cylinder engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 68B and T72
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Desiderata wrote:
Please what is your source for type 70 information. BT clearly states 1942 transmission project. But BT wrong on numerous occasions.


Sources are devided. Wood and Kruta / Hucke say (hydraulic) transmission system for coupling 4 engines, " L'épopée Bugatti " by L' Ebé Bugatti, il "Automobiles et autorails " by Amaury Lot and " L'Automobiliste " in n° 67 as well as Von Saldern say 16 cylinder aero engine, arranged in 4 blocks of 4, in X configuration. these engines may have been coupled hydraulically, in the manner described in patent FR 977596 from August 22, 1942.

The type 65 is by most indicated as a single-cylinder engine (some add 50cc), probably the one in the drawing

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