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 Post subject: Bugattibuilder.com V3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:34 pm 
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Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
After version 1 and version 2, recent events request a new version of Bugattibuilder.

To be able to design a model, I need your input on the site. What is appreciated, what is useless, what is lacking on the site, what is there, but does not work too good, and what do you want added.

Basic layout will be the same:

-frontpage with cookie-operated "what's new" section
-articles
-events
-forum
-photo section
-WIKI
-links

It is especcially the forum, photo and WIKI that I would like to weave into each other. The forum will be kept as is, but posting photos should be made more simple.
The WIKI will contain different tabs for chassis numbers:
-confirmed data (backed up by sources)
-events
-photos
-unconfirmed data

Still have no clue of what to do with the rest of the WIKI (modelling, loose pages, etc)

All comments appreciated.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:34 am
Posts: 50
Hallo Herman,

I read about the stop for the wiki and for me, I am very upset that people are trying to manipulate original data.
Your wiki did have more information than Conway and all the other so called Bugatti coinaisseurs.
For me, it was a source of information yust I was looking for.
I am intersted in information of owners, pre owners what happen to the car, etc.. One part of this information is only the name of the owner, no thelephone number, no privat information. Only the information of the current owner is important for the next owner and nobody else.
For me it is a black day when I heard about some stupid people who are trying to ignore investigated data and try to cover there false identity of there Bugatti.

Jean B


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 Post subject: Re: Bugattibuilder.com V3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Herman wrote:
After version 1 and version 2, recent events request a new version of Bugattibuilder.

To be able to design a model, I need your input on the site. What is appreciated, what is useless, what is lacking on the site, what is there, but does not work too good, and what do you want added.

Basic layout will be the same:

-frontpage with cookie-operated "what's new" section
-articles
-events
-forum
-photo section
-WIKI
-links

It is especcially the forum, photo and WIKI that I would like to weave into each other. The forum will be kept as is, but posting photos should be made more simple.
The WIKI will contain different tabs for chassis numbers:
-confirmed data (backed up by sources)
-events
-photos
-unconfirmed data

Still have no clue of what to do with the rest of the WIKI (modelling, loose pages, etc)

All comments appreciated.


With my opinion:
The operation of wiki became simple.
I contributed my share there so that it is thus.

To make the distinction between confirmed and not confirmed information is difficult and complicated

Difficult also to give dates of confirmation of information.

Wiki will not replace the registers which give information much more detailed. If it were the case there would be a competition and each one would protect its information.

In fact already the case between different the registers sometimes is contradicted.

Too detailed information would compete with also the books which often are the source of information.

Wiki must keep the possibility of receiving information or modifications of any person.

What lack especially is general information on its contents which would make it possible each person to know that Wiki can have errors and that it does not cease being improved, thanks to the participation of those which know and bring extra informations, corrections etc…

And also thanks to the debates on the forum of bugattibuilder.

I think that it would be an error to modify the classification by frame and the presentation of the cards which required for me nearly 2 years of work that I will not remake, and who still require a year to supplement with information that I lay out.

If it is the case, I would leave with the others work be made.

Would also like to know the opinion of those which particularly contributed for Wiki:

Haje
Scuderia CC
octagonfox
Uwe
drhauk
bugatti96
and others


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:59 am 
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Posts: 2620
Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
I have been designing somewhat, and V3 will not be feasable. I have other plans now.

Do not worry, Christian et all. The work is not lost.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Posts: 232
My thoughts on the Wiki:

I agree with Christian that it will be hard to distinguish between confirmed and non-confirmed information. You'd have to mention the source at the very least. Besides that, different Registers sometimes contradict themselves.

There is one very important point (at least to me) which shouldn't be overlooked. Yes, Wiki is a medium where anyone can add, modify or delete information (like Martijn and Christian already mentioned). The essential addition to me is that information can only be deleted if it is incorrect. This means an owner (or someone else) can't delete the information if it is correct, even if the owner or the other person doesn't want this information published. This information is public, from Registers, books, exhibitions or programmes of meetings etc.

I am searching for a lawyer or legal counselor who can give a definite answer to the question if the site owner or the contributors are allowed to publish this information. If anyone of you knows someone who can answer this question, please ask him.

Regards, Jeroen

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www.octagonfox.com
twitter: @octagonfox


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:49 pm 
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Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
I have solved the privacy problems. Call me tomorrow and I will explain. (took some searching and questioning people, I must admit)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
Jeroen

I think that it is difficult to say that information is always exact, even the experts, the historians sometimes are contradicted. Documents, witnesses, invoices of repairs, photographs can bring corrections to the information given by the registers or other books.

I think that if there is a doubt about information, there are two solutions which already exist:

1) to make known this information in " discussion" of wiki

or

2) To put the question in the forum of bugattibuilder

In both cases there is a debate with d' others which can yes or not confirm.

That functions very well but is not always used, but could be recalled in wiki.


Christian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Hello Christian,

I agree, in most cases one is never 100% percent sure. The other point I'm making is even more important to me. No deletions of information, unless the information is incorrect.

Regards, Jeroen

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www.octagonfox.com
twitter: @octagonfox


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:06 am
Posts: 789
Location: France
"...No deletions off information, unless the information is incorrect..."

Yes, but that which will seek to modify it is that he thinks of rectifying an error. But it can also be mistaken.

The problem is not there. It is necessary to be able to prevent those which would make modification or would erase information for unavowed personal considerations.

There are not many solutions for that. Only which appears effective to me would be to give a personal code to any person who would ask pseudo to reach the modifications

It would be an additional precaution. Knowing that constantly a regulator could immediately remove this code (passport) with that which would have an unacceptable behavior.

These unacceptable behaviors could be announced to the regulator as soon as possible by those which have already access to the modifications.

It is a proposal for opinion

Christian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Christian I realise this may make a lot more work for you and the others who update Wiki regularly, but how about only a very few moderators being allowed to edit Wiki? The rest of us, should we have information that we feel should appear in Wiki, can post it on the Forum, then there can be a (public) debate and changes can then be made afterwards.

It will mean more work for Wiki's moderators, but it will be safer. Let us please have some more suggestions, the safety and integrity of Wiki must now be our first priority.

Regards
Johan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:27 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 2620
Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
I have been searching, but I am afraid I cannot introduce 3 levels of visitors in the WIKI:

-non-logged in visitors (can only see the front page and the login page)
-logged in visitors (can edit pages)
-and this third one is not possible: (can view WIKI but no edits)

I think for the moment it will just be a matter of tightly moderating the WIKI by the "core people" (Christian, Jeroen and me)

For discussions, I would like the forum to be used, as it attracts more visitors, so there is more knowledge present.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:39 am 
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Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
Hi Herman,

Can't you change the Wiki settings thus:

Non-logged in visitors can view, but not edit.

Logged-in visitors can edit.

The trick is that you keep control yourself about who can become a member of the Wiki, and who not. This way only those who really contribute need to log in, and you keep everybody else out. I'm not sure of course, but I guess there are less then 10 people who make the real contributions to the Wiki.

Everybody who wants to change something, can go to the forum and post there what they want to contribute.
Just an idea...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Posts: 789
Location: France
Herman

Le changement de wiki est pour moi une catastrophe

Je perds la liaison que j'avais avec chaque fiche (environ 2800) avec ma banque de données de mon disque dur.

Je ne pourrais plus accéder directement en liaison avec chacune de mes fiches mémorisées dans ma banque de données pour chaque modification

Recréer des liaisons avec chaque fiche représente un travail énorme

c'est trop pour moi, trop de temps, travail fastidieux

Créer un lien pour chacune des 2800 fiches, je ne peux pas, j'abandonne.

Christian

The change of wiki is for me a catastrophe

I lose the connection which I had with each card (approximately 2800) with my data bank of my hard drive.

I could not reach any more directly in connection with each one of my cards memorized in my data bank for each modification

To recreate connections with each card represents an enormous work

it is too for me, too much time, tiresome work

To create a bond for each of the 2800 cards, I cannot,

I give up


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
The new system makes Christian say : "I give up!"

Simple, a new system must be found, or the old system must be kept. Any change that means the undoing of all Christian's work is unacceptable. And for what, to ensure that some moron cannot again delete the correct informmation about his fake?

No Herman, I say let us keep Wiki the way it is, if someone dare delete anything again, their names, cars and photos of the perpetrator are plastered all over this Forum and indeed the Internet and sent to all Bugatti Clubs.

A few should not be allowed to spoil it for the many.

Johan


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 Post subject: the few ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
I used to think that the brits had the monopoly on building fake Bugattis.Until I came to live in france that is,the difference is that the french keep very quiet about it and what they have done.It has always been fairly easy to register a built up car in the uk,The same cannot be said about registering a built up car in france.It is quite simply impossible,so most of the cars [ps home builds etc] owners have had to bend the regulations to get a logbook,using old logbooks for other cars ,etc.These people do not want to lose their cars or end up in prison for what is really a fairly harmless "crime" And it is for that reason above all others i believe that some of them [if not all] want as little publicity as possible.I share their concern and sympathise with them.I do believe however that a change in the law would be preferable,to demand an inspection of the cars being registered,and a firm requirement for three out of five original parts.This would automatically remove the PS cars of course,but why not.At the same time allowing people like my daughter to enjoy her three out of five T37,on the track but also on the road where it belongs.


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